# If that's a "minigun," what the hell is a full-sized gun?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 29, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588 "2009-01-29T18:32:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/21 "2009-01-29T23:58:53Z")
Transmits aiming information to the turrets. The face can indicate “Zone 9” (or range 9 or bearing 9). If the internal communications go out, the gunners can sneak a glance up to the fire director to see what the heck is going on.
I have see similar things in old shore-defense sites.
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### Author:  [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/22 "2009-01-30T00:44:40Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#):
>
> I don’t know jack about guns but that article quotes a rate of 3,000 rounds per minute. That’s 50 per second. That’s a damn lot. Is that correct?
That is a lot faster than a small full auto rifle like an m16 or such, which are around 500 -1000 rpm.
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/23 "2009-01-30T00:58:11Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#):
>
> That is a lot faster than a small full auto rifle like an m16 or such, which are around 500 -1000 rpm.
But each barrel only fires at 10 per second, it’s the multiple barrels that give it the high rate.
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### Author:  [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/24 "2009-01-30T01:08:34Z")
> [@bouv](#):
>
> 20mm? Pfft, I prefer the [30mm GAU-8 Avenger.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger) 😃
>
> [Here is it next to a VW Beetle.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg)
When I was in the Army stationed in Germany, we had some joint ops with not only our own fellow USA branches of service but with NATO as well (always had great names, too, like Caravan Guard and whatnot).
Anyway, we were at a tank range and there was an A-10 exercise going on nearby. I swear, that freaking gun sounds a LOT like a giant belching. It has such a low, fast, growling, _deadly_ sound to it. No wonder tanks scurry in fear when one of those flying bathtubs is around. They are awesome.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/25 "2009-01-30T01:25:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The Vulcan is a Gatling gun: each of the cannon’s six barrels fires once in turn during each revolution of the barrel cluster. The multiple barrels provide both a very high rate of fire — around 100 rounds per second — and contribute to long weapon life by minimizing barrel erosion and heat generation. Mean time between jams or failures is in excess of 10,000 rounds, making it an extremely reliable weapon. The success of the Vulcan Project and its subsequent progeny, the very-high-speed Gatling gun, has led to guns of the same configuration being referred to as Vulcan Cannon, which can sometimes confuse nomenclature on the subject.
So it can fire for approximately a minute and half total before it fails or jams? Not all that impressive.
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### Author:  [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/26 "2009-01-30T01:36:01Z")
> [@detop](#):
>
> You call that a gun ?
>
> Now [that’s](http://www.5ad.org/gun.htm) a gun 😃
>
> With apologies ti\o Crocodile Dundee
This was the one I first thought of also.
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### Author:  [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/27 "2009-01-30T02:00:49Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#):
>
> That’s not even as fast as they get…
> That’s why Gaitling guns have multiple barrels; a single barrel would get too hot to function.
It’s not just heat. (though that is certainly a factor) The design allows the various functions to happen in paralell, rather than sequentially…As an empty shell case is being extracted from one barrell, a fresh round is being inserted in another, and yet another being fired in a third barrell. If you are familiar with how fast computer processors pipeline instructions, there is an analogy to be drawn. In addition to the pipelining effect, seperating the functions in space helps avoid some types of jams..you don’t need to leave extra time for the ejected shell to fly clear of the reciever before trying to feed a fresh one thorough the same patch of space.
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### Author:  [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/28 "2009-01-30T02:52:04Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#):
>
> Transmits aiming information to the turrets. The face can indicate “Zone 9” (or range 9 or bearing 9). If the internal communications go out, the gunners can sneak a glance up to the fire director to see what the heck is going on.
>
> I have see similar things in old shore-defense sites.
Actually, the range clocks (that’s what they’re called) weren’t developed for communication between the fire director and the turrets. The gunners are inside the main gun turrets, they nave no practical way to sneak a peak up at the foremast.
They were developed for ship-to-ship non-radio communication of range data. In the WWI, especially during the Battle of Jutland, the Royal Navy found that they missed opportunities to fire on German ships for lack of good aiming information. The cordite smoke and generally poor visibility conditions meant that often fire-control officers in the tops couldn’t make good range and bearing identifications. The visibilty was patchy, though, so there were situations where a ship that theoretically should have had a good shot on an opposing ship didn’t have a good view of it but another ship could see the enemy. The range clocks were means of sharing range information between ships.
When the US Navy sent a squadron of battleships to join the Grand Fleet a year later, the range clocks spread to the US fleet, and stayed through the 30’s when replaced by a reliable short-range radio system called TBS (Talk Between Ships).
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/29 "2009-01-30T04:11:25Z")
You are right of course. It all came back to me as I read your excellent description. (WHat were the things in shore installations?)
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### Author:  [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/30 "2009-01-30T06:57:01Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> So it can fire for approximately a minute and half total before it fails or jams? Not all that impressive.
Yeah, but [this](http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iz5MwPsfyo&feature=related) is what a burst about a second long can do. Here’s [another clip](http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=zhPwaApe4Rk) with test range and a few field firings mixed in. The clips are slow motion, but I’ll bet none of the bursts that pounded the shattered fragments of what used to be a tank into the dirt was longer than 2 seconds.
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### Author:  [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/31 "2009-01-30T07:40:02Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> So it can fire for approximately a minute and half total before it fails or jams? Not all that impressive.
Considering that the Vulcan was designed for aircraft that carry about 700-1000 rounds, it is not a problem.
Even the ship mounted [Phalanx CIWS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS) (built round a Vulcan 20mm cannon) only has a magazine of 1550 rounds.
So the in-use expectation is “short, controlled bursts” - you are filling quite a small space with high velocity metal and explosives, and want to be bang on target. But you will chew that target to bits if you hit.
Si
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/32 "2009-01-30T07:43:28Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#):
>
> Heh, the recoil force on the Gau-8 is more than half the thrust of the A-10. That strikes me as exceedingly awesome.
I know ! Ever since I learned that fact, I keep imagining Goose yelling in the intercom : “The airbrakes are not enough, we’re going too fast, Maverick ! We’re going to overshoot !” “Let’s fire that sucker.” :D.
And now, for a silly anecdote related to the OP :
Back when I started roleplaying (that would be when I was 12 years old. I know.) a friend and I got hold of the first edition of Shadowrun, a cyberpunk game. The French translation of that book was… sketchy, and the almighty minigun, one of the most powerful individual weapons one could get his hands on, got translated as “mini pistol”. Guess somebody didn’t do his research.
For years we thought it was a joke or reference to something else - how else could a [Derringer](http://passtheammo.com/hick/files/pta/texas_defender_derringer.jpg) do more damage than a heavy machine gun or a rocket launcher ? 😕
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### Author:  [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/33 "2009-01-30T15:13:04Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> So it can fire for approximately a minute and half total before it fails or jams? Not all that impressive.
For aircraft guns the typical firing window on a target is a couple of seconds at most, hence the focus on high rate of fire so you can throw 100 rounds or more at the target in that time. If you ever need to fire at something for more than a minute and a half, you’re basically brought the wrong weapon to the fight. This is particularly the case if they’re shooting back with a gun capable of shredding your aircraft in a few seconds.
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### Author:  [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/34 "2009-01-30T17:10:16Z")
> [@mlees](#):
>
> Not a timekeeping device. Notice the numbers do not go to 12.
Could they be using metric time?
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### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/35 "2009-01-30T17:13:26Z")
> [@mlees](#):
>
> Not a timekeeping device. Notice the numbers do not go to 12.
Maybe it’s metric. 😃
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/36 "2009-01-30T17:50:33Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#):
>
> Could they be using metric time?
It’s a picture of an American battleship. Think it’s metric?
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### Author:  [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/37 "2009-01-30T19:29:37Z")
They’ve just prepared for a “Star Blazers” type of event. Iscandar rotates with a 20-hour day.
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/38 "2009-01-30T20:32:16Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> So it can fire for approximately a minute and half total before it fails or jams? Not all that impressive.
It doesn’t say if that’s a _per_ barrel figure, or an _overall_ figure. If you can put 10K rounds through a barrel before _that_ barrel jams or fails, that’s a much higher number than simply putting 10K rounds through the _weapon_ before it fails.
My understanding is that in the case of gatling gun weapons, they have a “quick change” feature, which allows the crew to swap the barrels out rapidly, so the downtime is relatively short.
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### Author:  [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/39 "2009-01-30T23:52:28Z")
> [@Sunspace](#):
>
> Maybe it’s metric. 😃
What, was my post invisible? It’s not a timekeeping device of any sort, it is a display that indicates the range from the displaying ship to a target.
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### Author:  [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)
#### Post date: [January 31, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-thats-a-minigun-what-the-hell-is-a-full-sized-gun/483588/40 "2009-01-31T04:12:31Z")
Maybe it’s metric.
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