# If the cockpit fell off a airliner while in mid-flight, could it be landed safely? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779 "2017-05-16T19:08:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dude\_robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8e7dd6/32.png) [@dude\_robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude_robert)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/1 "2017-05-16T19:08:51Z")
So, let’s make a hypothetical scenario where a Boeing 787-9 is flying in the over the ocean at 12.5 kilometers. Suddenly, there is a terrible noise and the cockpit section tears away from the fuselage and falls away. Luckily, all 3 pilots and flight attendants are busy in the back restroom and the cockpit door is still closed as it was before, albeit with a bit of wind running through it, and the aircraft frame is somewhat totally fine. Could the plane still be safely landed? How would the ground stations react to this? How would the pilots and flight attendants handle this situation? Let’s say that all the engines and fiddly bits “turn off” and go to their natural state, although the airplane’s fuselage is still powered and pressurized. I remember there was once a fighter plane where the pilot ejected, but the plane landed safely in a cornfield somewhere. Could this also happen here? Or could the plane be controlled by playing with the wires, or by some sort of secondary control panel? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/2 "2017-05-16T19:35:12Z")
If a pilot knows he’s going to eject, he’ll try to make sure the plane is in a trajectory that allows it to crash without injuring or killing people on the ground. Unless you have a cite, I doubt the plane landed safely. If a pilot ejects, it’s because he knows he has no way of bringing it in for a safe landing. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/3 "2017-05-16T19:36:57Z")
IANAAE but I would say the aerodynamics of a gigantic hole in the front would convert the plane into a rock very quickly if it didn’t breakup first. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/4 "2017-05-16T19:40:15Z")
My WAG as someone who has never flown an airliner: Not a chance. Landing an airliner requires not only that you be able to manipulate control surfaces, but also know where you’re going. Only a very narrow range of altitude, speed, pitch, angle of attack, etc. can get you to a safe landing. You can’t smash into a mountain; you need to hit something like ocean at low speed and a good angle, or flat land. This is far more difficult than Sullenberger-ing into the Hudson. Not to mention that now that the cockpit and nose have been ripped off your plane, your plane is probably going to experience some pretty wild, unfamiliar, aerodynamic behavior - you’re not very streamlined. That all depends on your even having the ability to control flight surfaces _without use of anything in the flight deck,_ which is already highly, highly doubtful. Your aircraft, without the flight deck, is a body without a brain, maybe even without a nervous system. Jets like the A-10 have manual control with pulleys, etc. in case of FBW failure, IIRC, but even then they need a cockpit. Your described scenario would lead to a deadly crash pretty soon. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/5 "2017-05-16T19:51:09Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Unless you have a cite, I doubt the plane landed safely. > **[Cornfield Bomber](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber)** > > The "Cornfield Bomber" is the nickname given to a Convair F-106 Delta Dart of the United States Air Force's 71st Fighter-Interceptor Squadron which made an unpiloted landing in a farmer's field in Montana in 1970. Suffering only minor damage after the pilot had ejected from the aircraft during a training mission gone awry, the aircraft was recovered, repaired, and returned to service. It is currently on display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force at Wright-Patterson Air Force B... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/6 "2017-05-16T19:53:29Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > [Cornfield Bomber - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber) You beat me to it! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/7 "2017-05-16T19:55:35Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > [Cornfield Bomber - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber) Well, the Convair F-106 Delta Dart is an exception-it’s as close to a paper airplane made out of metal as you’re gonna get. ---
**Author:** ![Fleetwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fleetwood/32/271_2.png) [@Fleetwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fleetwood)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/8 "2017-05-16T20:31:25Z")
Perhaps, if they could make it safely to the emergency cockpit. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/9 "2017-05-16T20:49:08Z")
The emergency cockpit? There is no way the aircraft could stay pressurized with the cockpit broken off, and there would be no way to control it at all. Divine intervention would be their only hope. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/10 "2017-05-16T20:50:37Z")
Awaiting one of the board’s commercial pilots to weigh in on this… > [@Velocity](#): > > That all depends on your even having the ability to control flight surfaces _without use of anything in the flight deck,_ which is already highly, highly doubtful. Your aircraft, without the flight deck, is a body without a brain, maybe even without a nervous system. > > Jets like the A-10 have manual control with pulleys, etc. in case of FBW failure, IIRC, but even then they need a cockpit. Exactly. The 787 has “fly-by-wire” control systems. In order for the OP’s incredibly-far-fetched scenario to work, the flight crew would somehow need to be able to patch into the wiring for the flight controls, and then control them, without any of the hardware or software that’s in the now-removed cockpit. And, they’d need to be able to do it very, very quickly, since the loss of the front of the plane will have disrupted its aerodynamics. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/11 "2017-05-16T20:59:42Z")
I believe the avionics bay is right under the cockpit. If the cockpit section is torn away, there won’t BE any control system for the crew to patch into. Also, wouldn’t this rupture all hydraulic systems? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/12 "2017-05-16T21:00:09Z")
If it was a Hollywood movie, any teenager with a laptop could hack the flight controls in about 30 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/13 "2017-05-16T21:04:30Z")
All this sounds like a horrible direct-to-dumpster movie plot. There’s not the tiniest shred of possibility [Asteroid, I’m talking to you]. The plane will disintegrate, there are no “alternate” control panels, I’ve wasted too much time already. Back to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/14 "2017-05-16T21:12:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > If it was a Hollywood movie, any teenager with a laptop could hack the flight controls in about 30 seconds. Not even if MacGyver was the pilot, MacGyver 2.0 was the co-pilot and Clarence the Angel was the navigator. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/15 "2017-05-16T21:20:55Z")
Something sort of like the OP’s scenario did happen to [TWA Flight 800](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800) back in 1996. After an explosion in the center fuel tank severed the front third or so of a Boeing 747 flying at an altitude of over 13,000 feet over the Atlantic Ocean near Long Island, the rest of the airplane (including most of the fuselage and the wings, tail, and engines) continued to fly for 34 seconds before the wings started to come apart. Needless to say, there were no survivors. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/16 "2017-05-16T21:29:03Z")
This reminds me of [TWA Flight 800](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800#In-flight_breakup_sequence_and_crippled_flight). A 747-100. After the break-up, the main remaining body of the plane continued on for a bit. FAA analysis indicates it actually climbed some. But the fire and other damage lead to instabilities, it started to roll, a wing came off, etc. So a jet with a less explosive separation can fly stably for a likely small amount of time. If, and it’s a big mega if, there was some way to control it. Which there isn’t. (On preview: too slow!) ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/17 "2017-05-16T22:09:26Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Awaiting one of the board’s commercial pilots to weigh in on this… You rang? I’m unable to imagine this rather far-out scenario ending well. First of all, both pilots on an airliner are never out of the cockpit at the same time. But playing along with what the OP described… Unlike the F-106 (I’ve seen that plane at Wright-Patt BTW, very cool story), we’re talking about a large plane with passengers that we’d like to survive the incident. The cockpit falling off the airplane would represent not merely a change of CG like the F-106. That would be a fundamental change in the structure, and I doubt it would survive the mechanical effects of the separation. But even if it did, there would be no way to control the plane. You’re screwed, end of story. But you’ll be glad to know we take precautions against things like this, especially since there was a [scare a few years ago on the high seas.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![joema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@joema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joema)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/18 "2017-05-16T22:18:24Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > …The 787 has “fly-by-wire” control systems. In order for the OP’s incredibly-far-fetched scenario to work, the flight crew would somehow need to be able to patch into the wiring for the flight controls, and then control them, without any of the hardware or software that’s in the now-removed cockpit… Actually the same would be true for a pure hydraulic flight control system. If the cockpit were removed there would be no way to activate the controls, plus hydraulic pressure would be lost. While not specifically related to this point, all commercial fly-by-wire aircraft use hydraulic actuation for most control surfaces. They are not fly-by-wire from pilot cockpit all the way to the flight control surfaces. Even space shuttle used hydraulic acuators, as does the F-35: [The end of hydraulics in aerospace? Not so fast …](http://www.mobilehydraulictips.com/end-hydraulics-aerospace-fast/) But as already stated the aerodynamics of a fuselage with a detached cockpit would not permit control of the aircraft even if there were operational flight controls in the passenger cabin. The closest thing to this was Aloha Airlines Flight 243, where a section of a 737 fuselage tore away and the plane (barely) landed safely. However that would not be aerodynamically possible if the cockpit itself was detached, leaving a blunt, flat surface. The drag and control problems would be too severe: > **[Aloha Airlines Flight 243](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243)** > > Aloha Airlines Flight 243 (IATA: AQ243, ICAO: AAH243) was a scheduled Aloha Airlines flight between Hilo and Honolulu in Hawaii. On April 28, 1988, a Boeing 737-297 serving the flight suffered extensive damage after an explosive decompression in flight, caused by part of the fuselage breaking due to poor maintenance and metal fatigue. The plane was able to land safely at Kahului Airport on Maui. The one fatality, flight attendant Clarabelle "C.B." Lansing, was ejected from the airplane. Another... An Israeli F-15 landed after one wing was sheared off in an air-to-air collision, but this was only possible since it was a fighter plane with tremendous differential control authority from the elevators and a body generating lift: > **[How an Israeli F-15 Eagle managed to land with one wing](https://theaviationist.com/2014/09/15/f-15-lands-with-one-wing/)** > > The famous episode when an Israeli Air Force F-15 was able to land with one wing. The F-15 is not only a famous MiG Killer. The legendary Eagle is also a ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/19 "2017-05-17T01:52:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not even if MacGyver was the pilot, MacGyver 2.0 was the co-pilot and Clarence the Angel was the navigator. Coming this summer to Syfy… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779/20 "2017-05-17T04:26:09Z")
Since the question has been answered, and no one else has seen fit to do so, it looks to me like this thread _requires_ [a word from the late John Clarke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-cockpit-fell-off-a-airliner-while-in-mid-flight-could-it-be-landed-safely/786779.md?page=2)