# If the election is stolen in favor of Trump and the courts rule in his favor, do the Democrats just quietly hand over the keys? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [September 4, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767 "2024-09-04T17:51:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/23 "2024-09-04T18:41:52Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > This just happened in Venezuela – Maduro lost by a landslide and has remained in power. Because the army is on Maduro’s side. In the USA it seems that it is SCOTUS who is on the side of the illegitimate one. And Putin supports both. I don’t think the result is predictable, but I remember what happened in Florida with Bush vs Gore. I wonder which lesson from that each side has learned. PS: And Maduro can still fall, the oposition keeps fighting despite the army’s intervention. And yes, the judiciary is on Maduro’s side as well, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/24 "2024-09-04T18:53:06Z")
Trump has used Russia, Hungary and Venezuela as templates for his own power grabs, with lots of help from Fox, the Heritage Foundation, the Federalist Society, the Republican Party and certain elites like Elon Musk who perceive a benefit in supporting a “democracy”-in-name-only. Thankfully, he’s just not that good at it. I can only hope his helpers aren’t, either. I was heartened to see Merrick Garland’s conference this morning advising of the elections task force he’s put together to protect elections workers, as well as DOJ/FBI’s pursuit of criminal charges against RT employees who were acting on behalf of Russia to influence our elections this year. It all helps. And since we’re on the subject of election interference in the hope of stealing the election, well done to Brazil. We could take a page from that playbook in this country. > **[Brazil X ban: Top court judges uphold block of Musk's platform](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crkmpe53l6jo)** > > A majority of justices has voted in favour of upholding the suspension which has seen X blocked in Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/25 "2024-09-04T19:03:33Z")
1. Having been in the military, I don’t have the same amount of faith others do that they won’t follow Trump. 2. We don’t need all states to be willing to fuck up the normal voting procedure for Trump to win. All we need is for some to do it, others to not fight it (the so-called “fence sitters”), and some of the rest to realize that it is probably a lost cause no matter what they really believe. 3. The first Trump administration was when, by trial and error, they found out what they could really get away with…and know they know. As I’ve said too many times before, when it comes to this election absolute overkill is the only way to squeak through this mess, and the Republicans know this. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/26 "2024-09-04T19:14:27Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Because the army is on Maduro’s side. The army won’t get involved with any domestic protests here. I’m sure there will be protests, probably bigger than, say, the George Floyd ones, but if they get violent, the police and national guards will step in and shut them down. There will not be any kind of actual violent uprising that tries to actually overthrow the government. The US is too rich for that sort of thing – people aren’t going to put their lives and livelihoods on the line unless they’re desperate, and Americans aren’t desperate. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/27 "2024-09-04T19:23:36Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’m not worried about the election being stolen. Me either. The state officials that would try this are probably in a blood-red state going to Trump anyways. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’m worried about it being lost. Me too. The election should not be so close in EVs that a swing state or two can manipulate 10,000 votes and thus give Trump the victory. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Trump has used Russia, Hungary and Venezuela as templates for his own power grabs Which in this case makes the electoral college a feature not a bug since the states count the votes and for the most part enforce voting laws. If the Feds counted the votes, Trump may have won in 2020 using the Maduro technique. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/28 "2024-09-04T19:32:50Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’ve read that the Harris campaign has a veritable army of attorneys at the ready, prepared to deal with any elections shenanigans by the Trump persons. > > I’m not worried about the election being stolen. > > I’m worried about it being lost. I concur. I mean, unless it all comes down to like 100 votes in just one state, like with Gore and Florida. Then, there could be shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/29 "2024-09-04T19:51:59Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Even this SCOTUS seems unwilling to go that far. If they were, they would have made their ruling in the garbage immunity decision applicable to _all_ actions of a president while in office. They didn’t. They left it up to themselves to be the final arbiters. > > And let’s remember, he’s not a president now. SCOTUS would have to rule that he had some basis to claim he’d won the election as a candidate, not an incumbent. You are a hopeless optimist. I only wish I could share that. I have no confidence whatever in having SCOTUS feel it needs any logic in its rulings. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/30 "2024-09-04T20:04:04Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > You are a hopeless optimist. This may be true. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/31 "2024-09-04T20:07:15Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > And then I quietly sing another verse of Oh Canada and thank my lucky stars. You might want to get the name of the national anthem correct. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/32 "2024-09-04T20:24:02Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I just want to add that the reason I raised the immunity ruling is in response to @That_Don_Guy’s concern around the Armed Forces. Trump will not have command of them in 2024. Biden would be commander in chief. But how would he stop the steal? He could order the military to erect barricades around the White House and refuse to come out, but that might still not stop a transfer of power. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/33 "2024-09-04T20:27:34Z")
@That_Don_Guy’s concern appeared to me to be around the Armed Forces acting on behalf of Trump. The election must be settled by January 6th, and Biden would remain in command until January 20th. Why would the military listen to a president who hadn’t yet been sworn in? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/34 "2024-09-04T21:06:40Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Seriously? If the US goes down in flames, we’re going with them. I can’t even imagine how fucked Canada would be with even a low-level civil war going on in the US. Why do you think that? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/35 "2024-09-04T21:23:17Z")
Trump wouldn’t need them to do anything **Biden** would need the military to overturn the results. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/36 "2024-09-04T21:25:15Z")
I am not sure we understand the words “stolen” and “results” in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/37 "2024-09-04T21:48:32Z")
Oops 🫢 ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/38 "2024-09-04T22:39:20Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > I think the only way there won’t be violence is if he wins decisively and without cheating and the thought of that gives me nightmares. I don’t think there’s going to be significantly more violence if Harris wins decisively than we have these days already. Which is too much, yes; but electing Trump won’t reduce it, it’ll almost certainly make it worse. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Even this SCOTUS seems unwilling to go that far. If they were, they would have made their ruling in the garbage immunity decision applicable to _all_ actions of a president while in office. In addition: If they were, why didn’t they do it in 2020? I suppose, if it comes down to a borderline situation in only one state, as in 2000, they might. But I don’t see it for an election that Harris clearly wins. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Are there not ANY house delegations from states that would refuse to turn the country into a de facto dictatorship? Are they ALL willing to believe obvious bullshit “election stealing” lies and hand the presidency to a clearly malfunctioning old sociopath? I don’t know and don’t want to find out. But it might happen that some of the R-majority house delegations would vote for Harris in that situation. We wouldn’t need all of them. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think they would certainly go that far, and declare Trump the victor even in the face of clear and obvious evidence against. Again – if so, why did they refuse to do that in 2020? > [@Velocity](#): > > Biden would be commander in chief. But how would he stop the steal? He could order the military to erect barricades around the White House and refuse to come out There’s nothing about being in the White House that magically makes somebody president. If there were, Trump would probably have tried that last time. The inauguration could be held anywhere (and isn’t generally held inside the White House, for that matter.) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/39 "2024-09-04T22:55:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > . . . let’s suppose that the federal courts, and perhaps SCOTUS itself, rules in Trump’s favor. > > Do Biden and the Democrats just throw up their hands and say, “Well, you got us then,” and quietly hand over the keys to the White House and begin packing up and doing the transition of power like any other election? It all depends on your phrase “perhaps SCOTUS.” Assuming the SCOTUS has ruled for Trump\*, the military would consider the election decided. For the Democrats to try holding onto their physical presence in the White House. would then be absurd, since the military, and the courts, would act as if Trump was president regardless of where he was located physically. As for Congress, party control there would not be determinative because, in the current U.S. system, the judiciary can overrule the legislature. Without a super-majority in congress, and state legislatures, it does not go the other way. For anyone who thinks the Democrats could just refuse to leave the White House, I ask how this is supposed to work at the Pentagon. The system there is that the new Secretary of Defense, or an acting secretary, takes office immediately after the inauguration. So does Lloyd Austin just refuse to leave his office? He doesn’t live there. If Trump wanted to avoid physically arresting Austin, he could starve him out. The minute Austin goes home, orders would go out to never let him back in the building. This all supposes SCOTUS ruled for Trump. If SCOTUS refused to rule one way or the other, and the same party controlled both houses of congress, I suppose the military would respect a joint resolution. If one party controlled the House and the other the Senate, then we have a real constitutional crisis. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \* This could be done directly, by ruling in favor or Trump, or indirectly, by a majority voting against taking up an appeal of an appeals court ruling in favor of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/40 "2024-09-04T23:20:17Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’ve read that the Harris campaign has a veritable army of attorneys at the ready, prepared to deal with any elections shenanigans by the Trump persons But once it reaches the SCOTUS and they pull another “Trump v. United States” what then? No amount of lawyers can appeal SCOTUS ruling ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/41 "2024-09-04T23:27:13Z")
I understand the point you’re making, but IMHO, there is a natural threshold to how far they’re willing to go. If they go too far, the public will rebel and stop accepting their rulings as the supreme law of the land. If/when that happens, we’re no longer a democracy, we’re a country in anarchy. And who needs a Supreme Court then? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767/42 "2024-09-04T23:37:24Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I understand the point you’re making, but IMHO, there is a natural threshold to how far they’re willing to go Though that’s somewhat irrelevant to the OP. There are plenty of discussion of whether that is likely/possible [elsewhere](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-election-nightmare-scenarios/1006178) The question here is what to do if that happens? One thought I had. Would the Democrats be able to expand the SCOTUS after the fact and then rebring the case between election and the inauguration? It would be the hail-iest of hail Marys but whats the alternative, taking to the streets? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-election-is-stolen-in-favor-of-trump-and-the-courts-rule-in-his-favor-do-the-democrats-just-quietly-hand-over-the-keys/1006767.md?page=3)