# If the Feds won't do it, we will: localities take steps to curb illegal immigration **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838 "2006-05-08T02:47:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/81 "2006-05-13T12:31:42Z")
[Illegal aliens leave hospital near bankruptcy](http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/980.html) [Illegal aliens cost California billions](http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041206-102115-6766r.htm) [Growing crisis in health care caused by illegals](http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid:69346) [New Mexico residents pay disproportionate costs of illegal immigration](http://www.nmsu.edu/~ucomm/Releases/2001/Feb2001/immigrnt.html) It’s easy to be compassionate and generous when it’s someone else’s resources you’re giving away. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/82 "2006-05-13T12:31:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And finally, we have this. Maybe we need an English Only law on SDMB. You know that the language used on this board is English. You know that many people do not speak Spanish. "A. Son mexicanos por nacimiento: I. Los que nazcan en territorio de la República, sea cual fuere la nacionalidad de sus padres;" You’re Mexican by birth if you’re born in Mexico regardless of what the nationality of your folks is. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/83 "2006-05-13T12:34:36Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > "A. Son mexicanos por nacimiento: > > I. Los que nazcan en territorio de la República, sea cual fuere la nacionalidad de sus padres;" > > You’re Mexican by birth if you’re born in Mexico regardless of what the nationality of your folks is. Is Mexico as lax about enforcing its immigration laws as we are? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/84 "2006-05-13T12:51:35Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > [Illegal aliens leave hospital near bankruptcy](http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/980.html) > > [Illegal aliens cost California billions](http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041206-102115-6766r.htm) > > [Growing crisis in health care caused by illegals](http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid:69346) > > [New Mexico residents pay disproportionate costs of illegal immigration](http://www.nmsu.edu/~ucomm/Releases/2001/Feb2001/immigrnt.html) > > It’s easy to be compassionate and generous when it’s someone else’s resources you’re giving away. You’d would rather that these people remain untreated, which would be contrary to US law I believe (what part of illegal don’t you understand 😃 )? I think that any article that uses FAIR as a source is pretty much irrelevant. The NMSU study counts people legally in the US that ambulance services pick up. The Tuscon article doesn’t back a thing up. And also appears to count people legally in the US. Like the people that have passed through ports of entry legally. I think that there is an increased cost. A substantial one. But the cites prove nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/85 "2006-05-13T12:55:44Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Is Mexico as lax about enforcing its immigration laws as we are? I don’t know. But it appears that there Constitution is similar in the citizenship regard. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/86 "2006-05-13T13:10:22Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > But the cites prove nothing. Whoops! Didn’t read the 2 year old story from the New Mexican. NPR has an interesting bit about it currently though. > **[Aid Arrives at Arizona Hospital as Immigrants Dry Up](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5395387&ft=1&f=3)** > > The Copper Queen Community Hospital in Bisbee, Ariz., was, until recently, a poster child for the crisis in social services along the U.S.-Mexico border. It was flooded with patients who couldn't pay -- many of whom were illegal immigrants. Federal... It appears that as the Federal program to compensate hospitals for illegal alien care came into place, that increased enforcement has brought down the number of illegal aliens. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/87 "2006-05-13T13:30:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > First, just a reminder that this is not The Pit. Second, does being dishonest come naturally to you ar do you try extra hard at it? You did this same shit earlier. You find something you don’t like or understand and immediately get all shitty. Why not ask for clarification? > > So how is what I’ve linked to “deliberate misinformation”? Are you sayiing that I, or the author, (perhaps both) know what is in the article to be incorrect and realayed that information anyway? In which case I’d ask you for the proof you have of that accusation. Either that or an apology seems to be in order. First, I never said YOU were dishonest. I post something that proves something you cite to is bullshit and you immediately start your personal attacks. > [@magellan01](#): > > Additionally, you start off the whole accusation acknowledging that the staement may be confusing: > > Yet, still, you try your hardest to turn whatever it might say to not ony possibly incorrect information, but outright deceit. > > The debates with you are coming back to me know, the anger, the dishonesty. If it continues I will bow out, as I have before. Possibly incorrect??? Thanks for the laugh!!! I didn’t have to try very hard. As a Mexican national I know the law here. > [@magellan01](#): > > And finally, we have this. Maybe we need an English Only law on SDMB. You know that the language used on this board is English. You know that many people do not speak Spanish. Yet, you post this! Unfuckingbelieveable. Precious, just precious. Oh no, you want to make me an STMB illegal language alien!! Don’t get your pampers in knot. Unregistered Bull did a fine job of translating the key part of the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/88 "2006-05-13T13:45:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think it is safe to say that more would likely come from Mexico due to proximity and the fact the there is a steady stream of illegals coming in. How about the thousands upon thousands of legal border crossers? Maybe I’m mistaken but it appears to me you’ve never spent any time along the Texas border and have no idea of the border dynamics. Every single day thousands of people cross the border legally in both directions. And as you yourself quoted: “No mosquito that bites a person infected with malaria (in this case dengue) checks identification papers before biting another person to transmit debilitating fever.” But you put the blame of a “recent virulent outbreak”(like a spike in dengue cases that occured 7-8 years ago is recent?) on illegals? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/89 "2006-05-13T13:45:23Z")
Actually, I think there is an English only rule here, because it makes it harder for the mods to do their job if they don’t know what you’re saying. Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/90 "2006-05-13T13:54:51Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > Technically you are correct because children of diplomats are not granted citizenship. A woman in labor walking across the border? The child is given citizenship as has been discussed elsewhere on this board. I believe they’re called anchor babies. Search for it. You completely missed the point. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/91 "2006-05-13T14:10:22Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Is Mexico as lax about enforcing its immigration laws as we are? Birthright is not an affair of immigration. It is a constitutional right. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/92 "2006-05-13T14:45:05Z")
The constitutionality of “anchor” babies was discussed to death in “that other” thread, as was the “patriotism” of the Minutemen, Border Guard, etc. I noticed now that there is some dire “threat to our culture”. WFT is that? Everything about the “American culture” came from somewhere else. That hot dog or burger we eat at the baseball game came from Germany. Pizza and spaghetti came from Italy. The basis for our laws came from England. Let’s put it exactly the way it is. This is no defending of our culture, it is a thinly veiled racism. Their culture is no good, so that means they themselves are no good. They are different. Different sucks. Something else I thought of… the “My people did it legally and came through Ellis Island and blah blah blah” argument. Well, MY family came that way too, in the early 1900’s. BUT they had it easier. About the only requirements were that you not be a criminal and not be carrying some dread disease. There was also NOT a 10 plus year wait. You merely had to have someone already in the States vouch for you. You didn’t need a gang of laywers to navigate the immigration laws. It was EASIER. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/93 "2006-05-13T15:00:48Z")
**TWEEEEET!!!** I do not want to see any more accusations of dishonesty unless very narrowly addressed to a specific off-board author of a specific text with citations to prove that the dishonesty was deliberate. If we cannot discuss hot topics in Great Debates without getting personal, we’ll simply move the threads to the **Pit**. Personally, I think that even on an emotionally charged issue, the usual denizens of this Forum should be _capable_ of conducting a debate without trying to simply tear down their opponents. (I have, unfortunately, been proven wrong in the past, but I am ever the optimist that we can pull it off.) Leave the personal observations for the **Pit**. Stick to discussing facts or the logical conclusions drawn from those facts without worrying about whether your opponent is “honest” enough or “bright” enough to handle the information. **[/Moderator Mode]** ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/94 "2006-05-13T15:10:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Schools become overburdened and the quality of education drops because such a large percent of kids who don’t speak English well slows up the class and need bilingual resources, putting further financial strain on the system. I just want to point out that in an area with heavy immigration, finding bilingual resources isn’t difficult. And adding more people that speak that language in to the mix doesn’t bump up costs. Most areas with heavy illegal immigration would still need those resources to teach thier legal immigrants (and before you say they should learn English only no matter what- don’t you think schools and communities ought to be able to choose how they best educate their children?). > [@](#): > > There exist large Spanish-speaking populations in many cities, so the need to assimilate in order to function is not so great as for say, Russian-Jews at the beginning of the last century. In many cities there also exists a large \*native[/] Spanish speaking populations that have been here since well before any English speakers arrived. Speaking Spanish does not go against American culture, because it _is_ a part of American culture. > [@](#): > > They are not as eager to be “American” as previous immigrants were. This is due to the fact that their native countries are so close, they plan to go back to visit, if not to live. This, combined with the previous bullet, means there is very little to gain and something to lose by embracing a new country fully and completely. I have a friend that was born in Africa. She spent her teens and young adult years in London. Then she moved to America where she has lived for twenty years. If you ask her “What are you?”, she will say, with no hesitation, “Indian”. This is pretty standard in the Indian community. Should we kick them out, too? Or should we recognize that being “Indian” or “Mexican” and “American” isn’t a contridiction. > [@](#): > > Language: America, by virtue of it’s being a conglomeration of people from so many diverse places benefits from having one language. A very large group that adheres to their old language and culture too strongly begins to balkanize the country. This can be seen in many large cities where all signs for blocks are in Spanish. There is almost not country on this earth that speaks a single language and despite what they tell us in school, America is not particularly unique for being a conglomeration of people from diverse places (did you know there are 300 ethnic groups in Cameroon alone?). Indeed, in countries with an official language, that language is usually the language of government but not at all the language that people speak at home. The only fairly monolingual countries I can think of are maybe a few parts of northern/western Europe and Japan- oddly enough these are also the few countries that are largly monocultural. > [@](#): > > Additionally, excessive accommodation of one culture leads to an argument for all cultures. Right now, Canada is having to make accommodations for Sharia law, as Muslim’s insist that their legal traditions be recognized along with those of other laws. While the existence of other cultures make for a rich societal experience, the society needs a dominant culture to unite all the diverse groups. (This is also one of the reasons I am in favor of the U.S. having an official language.) This is a mischaracterization of what that was about. Muslims were hoping for recognition of their family law, regarding things like divorce, inheretence, etc. For example, if you were undergoing a divorce you could both _choose_ to have custody, etc. decided according to Islamic law and have the state recognize those decisions. Recognizing the family law of different populations is an ancient and common practice in much of the world. blah. blah. blah blah. It all boils down to the same thing. As for dengue…well, when we bring our troops back from Iraq, they will have been exposed to a lot of foreign diseases, right? We can’t just bring a mass of potentially disease ridden people right in to the heart of our cities all at once, can we? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/95 "2006-05-13T15:37:02Z")
About the “all they have to do is follow the law” argument. Below are some quotes about it. If the judges and lawyers are having fits in understanding the law, what chance would Jose, Hans, or Mario have??? [http://www.wolfsdorf.com/The\_Complexity\_of\_Immigration\_Law.htm](http://www.wolfsdorf.com/The_Complexity_of_Immigration_Law.htm) “With only a small degree of hyperbole, the immigration laws have been termed ‘second only to the Internal Revenue Code in complexity.’ A lawyer is often the only person who could thread the labyrinth.”. E. Hull, Without Justice For All 107 (1985). "Immigration laws bear a “striking resemblance …[to] King Minos’s labyrinth in ancient Crete. The Tax Laws and the Immigration and Nationality Acts are examples we have cited of Congress’s ingenuity in passing statutes certain to accelerate the aging process of judges.” Lok v. INS, 546 F.2d 37, 38 (2d Cir. 1977) “This case vividly illustrates the labyrinthine character of modern immigration law-a maze of hyper-technical statutes and regulations that engender waste, delay, and confusion for the Government and petitioners alike. The inscrutability of the current immigration law system, and the interplay of the numerous amendments and alterations to that system by Congress during the pendency of this case, have spawned years of litigation, generated two separate opinions by the District Court, and consumed significant resources of this Court. With regret and astonishment, we determine, as explained more fully below, that this case still cannot be decided definitively but must be remanded to the District Court, and then to the Board of Immigration Appeals (“BIA”), for further proceedings.” Drax v. Reno, 338 F.3d 98, 99-100 (2d Cir. 2003) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/96 "2006-05-13T15:49:55Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > When have we done the same for Mexicans? WIC and indegent care are the only welfare that illegals can recieve in Texas. Unless some states have different rules on welfare, then illegal aliens aren’t getting any social welfare. Not welfare - _social_ welfare. Illegal immigrants get free public education from age 5 to 18. The uninsured get hospital care in emergencies, etc. Remember the original quote: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by The King of Soup > Funny, indeed: I just can’t see how, if person X has just come to town and taken the job you would have gotten, enrolled his special-needs child in the local school, and dropped his uninsured wife off at the hospital, the impact on you isn’t exactly the same whether he broke any laws or not. My point is that we do not owe these things to foreign nationals but rather to our own citizen or legal immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/97 "2006-05-13T16:14:10Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > Illegal immigrants get free public education from age 5 to 18. This is not accurate. Schools are financed through real estate and income taxes. Everyone pays real estate taxes, either directly as owners of property or indirectly through rent (unless someone wants to claim that landlords typically deduct their property taxes from the rent due them). To the extent that illegal workers can neither claim refunds from withheld income taxes nor take property tax deductions of the inciome taxes (for which they cannot file), illegal immigrants appear to be paying more than their share for education. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/98 "2006-05-13T16:21:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Additionally, excessive accommodation of one culture leads to an argument for all cultures. Right now, Canada is having to make accommodations for Sharia law, as Muslim’s insist that their legal traditions be recognized along with those of other laws. I am curious as to why you are advancing this argument, since [you were corrected on the misunderstanding of the facts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6765775#post6765775) of the issue reported in the U.S. press (and anti-immigration blogs), already. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/99 "2006-05-13T17:00:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > …I am in favor of the U.S. having an official language. _Sprechen sie deutsch_? At the price of letting it be known that I can be baited by absolutely _anybody_, I’m back. You know, one good test of honesty is the sheer number of times a person’s words can be repeated without ellipsis, deletion, addition or substitution, with the result that he claims he’s being misquoted. At any rate, belatedly deciding to google the words “illegal immigration - anti” and provide some links does not rehabilitate an argument or deodorize the motivation of its source(s). Let’s take a look at the old and new issues as laid out in **magellan01** ’s post #58 and thereafter. There’s a lot of stuff here, so in this post I’ll address only part of it. **It ain’t legal to be illegal**. He spends five paragraphs waxing wroth about mischaracterizing his argument but not a word denying that the argument is circular and useless or restating it so it isn’t. A law is not validated by the mere fact that it gets broken. Are we done with this now? He devotes the next seven or eight chunks of his manifesto to what he calls the “loss of national identity” and the “dilution of citizenship.” I can’t even type that without hearing Sterling Hayden talk about the plot to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. He ( **magellan01** , not Hayden) keeps things moving by not boring us with any facts (he asserts, for example, that there are U.S. cities where all the street signs - actually, he says “signs for blocks” and leaves us to guess his meaning - are in Spanish, which is a description that doesn’t even fit Madrid or Mexico City, for pity’s sake). By reading the minds of people he will never meet, **magellan01** has discovered that people who sacrifice all of their possessions, undergo extreme hardship and run a very considerable risk of dying in the attempt to get here, really don’t want to be Americans very much. The proof is that Mexico is close enough for them to visit if they want to (that dash north through the desert in an unventilated shipping container was so much fun, they’ll want to do it again and again). The _big_ danger, apparently, is that Mexican Catholics will attempt to impose Sharia law here, but we can relax: it’s not even actually happening in Ontario [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia). Unlike Mexican-Americans, **magellan01** assures us, past immigrants did not cluster in communities that shared a foreign culture and language. This will come as a shock to all the Chinatowns, Little Italys, Little Havanas and Koreatowns in the country, not to mention the Polish-American community in Chicago. These are real communities, **magellan01** , not theme parks. In any event, the idea that twelve million people could “Balkanize” a nation of nearly four hundred million, even if they wanted to, even if they tried really hard, is absurd. So is the notion that, if we extended citizenship to these people who have risked more than most of us can imagine to be here, our citizenship would or could somehow be worth less. My national identity, my citizenship, is enriched whenever the freedoms and privileges I enjoy are extended to others, and it is cheapened by shameful and craven attempts to broker fear of the world into a denial of our own history as a nation of immigrants. **Costs of Immigration.**** magellan01**’s first link is the same one I provided earlier. His next three don’t work for me, but that’s okay because we can assume that FAIR will say absolutely anything in the service of restricting immigration, legal or not (for a look at the sensibility that shapes FAIR, the Minutemen, and a lot of other people in the anti-immigration camp, see this article: [http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=10485](http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=10485)). The best estimates are that illegal immigrants cost about $22 billion/year. That’s the bill for education, health care, welfare payments, everything. Two tenths of a percent of the GDP, about what we give away every year in corn subsidies. We can talk about how best to allocate this money, but to me, giving twelve million people a chance at a better life as Americans seems like a pretty good way to spend it. **Jobs/Wages.**** magellan01**links to [vdare.com](http://vdare.com), the people who dare to ask the question “Do Whites Have Rights?” The cited study, which covers all immigration, not just the illegal kind, says that it takes 303 billion away from native workers and gives 324 billion to native employers. Better to be an owner than a worker, but I had some suspicions on that score already. But there are a lot of things that affect wages and what’s missing is any reason to believe that changing one variable - undocumented workers - would lead to any sustained benefit that’s worth the cost. There’s no reason to assume, in fact, that a five percent increase in wages, even if it happened, would be an altogether good thing – it would come concomitant with an increase in the price of goods and services. One thing that struck me about the study (maybe because I could understand it) was the table showing that recent immigrants, even though earning 31% less than non-immigrants, are only slightly more likely to be receiving public assistance (8.3% to 7.4% in 1990).**magellan01** ends with a scary story from the Pat Buchanan collection. **National Security.** The evidence presented doesn’t demonstrate a threat of terrorism, only two of the 9/11 hijackers were out of lawful immigration status [http://www.nilc.org/immlawpolicy/cdev/congrssdev018.htm](http://www.nilc.org/immlawpolicy/cdev/congrssdev018.htm), none of them came over the southwestern border, and if there is a threat perhaps we should not spend our resources chasing Mexican families around the desert. If their arrival were made safe, orderly and legal, potential terrorists would not be able to hide among them so easily. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838/100 "2006-05-13T17:15:09Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Truth hurts doesn’t it. Gold. PURE GOLD. Keep em coming. > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > “…under current U.S. immigration laws, there is no such thing as an “anchor baby.” Yes, children born in the U.S. are U.S. citizens by birth (and not by naturalization, as someone erroneously stated; naturalization is when one becomes a citizen after birth). However, U.S. citizens cannot petition for their parents to immigrate legally to the U.S. until they are 21 years old. …” Don’t you realize that your last sentence here proves that your first one is wrong? The concept of anchor babies is real, even thought they may need to wait 21 years. Also, I think there is some provision for children over seven to petition the state in some way. But I’m not sure about that. > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > I’ve worked for long periods of time (up to 4 months) in places where Dengue exists in South Texas. These places are close to the border to the point of being right on the border. Legal crossings back and forth day and day and out occur probably in larger numbers than illegal traffic. Blaming Dengue on illegal immigration is just idiotic. You keep refuting your own points in your own posts. You seem to agree that: 1. illegals are coming into the U.S. country from and through Mexico 2. that dengue exists in Mexico and tropical climes further south to a greater extent than it does in the U.S. 3. that people from these areas increase the incidence of dengue among people in the U.S. Now, since both legal and illegal immigrants carry dengue and some percent, that we can safely assume to be greater than that of the U.S. population, it seems pretty obvious that if you reduce the numbers in either group, you’re helping fight dengue in the U.S. Let’s say that the same number of illegal and legal immigrants—3,000 each—come into a place in a given time period. And let’s say that the incidence of dengue among those groups is 5 per 1,000 (arbitrary). Then if you were able to stop the illegal group, you’d cut your influx of those carrying dengue into the community half. Cutting your increased exposure due to immigration in half. > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > ]When have we done the same for Mexicans? WIC and indegent care are the only welfare that illegals can recieve in Texas. Unless some states have different rules on welfare, then illegal aliens aren’t getting any social welfare. Free health care, turning our emergency rooms into health clinics. Free education for their kids. In-state tuition at colleges. [This study](http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/means.html) (done sometime after 2000) states: > [@](#): > > Not surprisingly, Figure 16 shows that almost without exception, use of means-tested programs is higher for households headed by legal Mexican immigrants than for those headed by illegal Mexican immigrants. For many programs, in fact, use rates for legal Mexican immigrants are more than twice that of native-headed households. However, the results also indicate that illegal immigration imposes significant costs on public coffers. Whereas 14.8 percent of native households use at least one of the five major welfare programs, among households headed by an illegal alien from Mexico the figure is 24.9 percent. Illegal immigrants from Mexico primarily receive welfare benefits on behalf of their American-born children. Overall, the results in Figure 16 indicate that whether legal or illegal, immigrants from Mexico make heavy use of means-tested programs. The findings in Figure 16 also suggest that one possible unintended consequence of legalizing Mexican illegals already in the country would be to substantially increase their use of means-tested programs. Findings in percents from Figure 16: Estimated Use of Means-tested Programs by Households Headed by Legal and Illegal Mexican Immigrants **Social Security Income** Natives: 3.9 Legal Mexicans: 5.6 Illegal Mexicans: 0.7 **Public Housing/Rent Subsidy** Natives: 4.2 Legal Mexicans: 6.3 Illegal Mexicans: 1.9 **TANF/General Assistance** Natives: 2.1 Legal Mexicans: 7.3 Illegal Mexicans: 1.2 **Food Stamps** Natives: 5.3 Legal Mexicans: 11.1 Illegal Mexicans: 8.0 **Medicaid** Natives: 12.1 Legal Mexicans: 29.3 Illegal Mexicans: 22.4 **Use of Any Welfare Program** Natives: 14.8 Legal Mexicans: 33.9 Illegal Mexicans: 24.9 **Unemployment Compensation** Natives: 4.7 Legal Mexicans: 8.5 Illegal Mexicans: 7.2 **Subsidized School Lunch** Natives: 5.8 Legal Mexicans: 31.8 Illegal Mexicans: 37.4 **Earned Income Tax Credit Eligibility** Natives: 13.1 Legal Mexicans: 55.8 Illegal Mexicans: 39.4 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-feds-wont-do-it-we-will-localities-take-steps-to-curb-illegal-immigration/355838.md?page=6)