# If the founding fathers were alive, what party would they be in? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2001, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996 "2001-11-17T22:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![whatmove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecc23a/32.png) [@whatmove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatmove)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/21 "2001-11-18T22:01:59Z")
Well, they weren’t technically Founding Fathers, but I’d suspect Samuel Adams, John Hancock, and Paul Revere would most likely associate themselves with the _Boston Tea_ Party. [sub]i’ve been trying for the last hour to make this joke actually work here, but I couldn’t find _any_ founding fathers who had been at the boston tea party…i just hope people appreciate the time sacrifice made and the immense effort that went into this post[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Dryga\_Yes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/22 "2001-11-18T23:42:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by llamasex \* > \*\*Of course they would be of the same party I am, because they are always right just like my party is. \*\* LOL. ( \<-- That is not pointless spam ) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/23 "2001-11-19T03:34:19Z")
Sort of depends on when you talk to the founders. In 1776, you’d have probably had a fair number of Libertarians. In 1787, after they had experienced life under the Artcles of Confederation (arguably a failed experiment with libertarianism) most wouldn’t have wanted a damn thing to do with the Libertarian party. My picks (using the term “founders” in its loosest sense to mean all of the early big guns): Adams, Hamilton and the Federalists would be Republicans. Jefferson, Madison would be Democrats. Patrick Henry, John Hancock - Die-hard Libertarians perhaps. George Washington - independent ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/24 "2001-11-19T04:21:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Minor hijack to set things straight on a point made above: > buy into the Republican government-as-controller scenario \*\* What did you mean by that? ---
**Author:** ![JuanDeCuba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JuanDeCuba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JuanDeCuba)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/25 "2001-11-19T05:48:57Z")
They would definitely be in this party [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=99182](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=99182) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/26 "2001-11-19T05:51:22Z")
I think the Founding Fathers would be in whichever party had the most naked dancers, served the best alcohol, and had the loudest music. Woooo! Parr-taaaaay!! ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/27 "2001-11-19T05:55:01Z")
Tennessee Ben wrote: > [@](#): > > At least a few of them would have been in that party at Auburn. > > -d&r- D’OH! And here I thought I was the first one to make that kind of “party” joke in this thread. _sigh_ And in the “But seriously, folks” column, I think the Founding Fathers would go off and form their own political party, which would be pretty much like the Libertarian party except a **whole** lot more moderate. As the Constitution should remind all of us, its Framers were very definitely **not** opposed to making compromises. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/28 "2001-11-19T06:33:03Z")
I very much doubt that the Founding Fathers would go off and form _one_ new political party. After all, these are the guys who _invented_ political parties in the United States, and there’s no reason to think the Democratic-Republicans would get along with the Federalists any better now than they did back then (and that’s not even getting into the _intra_-party factions and rivalries of the D-R’s and Feds). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/29 "2001-11-19T07:48:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\* > > _Jefferson_, Madison would be Democrats. > > \*\* Explain that one, please. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/30 "2001-11-19T11:44:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > > \*\*Minor hijack to set things straight on a point made above: > > buy into the Republican government-as-controller scenario \*\* > > What did you mean by that? \*\* Can’t answer for Polycarp, but for myself, I do see the right wing as being more eager then the left to control people via the legislation of morality. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/31 "2001-11-19T13:15:25Z")
**barton** –I think you’ve hit the nail on the head! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*I very much doubt that the Founding Fathers would go off and form _one_ new political party. After all, these are the guys who _invented_ political parties in the United States… \*\* The Founding Fathers were very much opposed to political parties. (See Hofstadter’s _The Idea of a Party System_) The Federalists and Anti-Federalists were not in any way political parties. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/32 "2001-11-19T14:47:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SenorBeef \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > > \*\* > > > > Jefferson, Madison would be Democrats. > > > > \*\* > > Explain that one, please. \*\* Coitainly. Aside from the fact that these two men were members of the Democratic-Republican party, the forerunner of the modern Democratic party, there is the following: Jefferson was a firm believer in the separation of church and state. He invented the “wall of separation,” you may recall. He would be appalled by Republical attempts to tear down that wall. Jefferson feared and loathed big business, and though it’s simplistic to call Republicans the party of big business, it is not entirely inaccurate. Jefferson was very conscious of human rights (even if his position as a slaveholder made him somewhat hypocritical on this point). He would have interpreted the Bill of Rights (including the implied rights of the 9th Amendment) in the broadest possible way, and would not favor either the strict constructionism or the constrained view of the 9th Amendment adopted by modern Republicans. But Jefferson was no Libertarian, either. Heck, he practically invented big government programs. (Louisiana Purchase, anyone?) Jefferson also witnessed the chaos that the nation endured under the pseudo-libertarian Articles of Confederation, and understood the need for strong central government. Though he expressed some reservations about powerful federal government in his writings, in practice he used that government power broadly. Madison, while no clone of Jefferson, was his protege, and the two men saw eye-to-eye on virtually all points. There is no perfect fit between the ideas of the founding fathers and the modern political parties (the times and issues are different), but I think that if you took a man with Jefferson’s ideas and put him in the modern world with modern realities, the Democratic Party would feel most natural to him. What are your thoughts, **SenorBeef**? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/33 "2001-11-20T06:15:00Z")
Don’t forget, the Democrats are **also** viewed as the “gun control” party, the “tax and spend” party, and the “welfare state” party – none of which sound like the kind of thing Jefferson or Madison would be very big on. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/34 "2001-11-20T16:21:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Don’t forget, the Democrats are **also** viewed as the “gun control” party, the “tax and spend” party, and the “welfare state” party – none of which sound like the kind of thing Jefferson or Madison would be very big on. \*\* Oh I dunno. First of all, it is an oversimplification to say Democrats are the "gun control party.’ Some Democrats believe in gun control, some do not. Not many Southern Democrats (and remember that Jefferson and Madison were Southerners) are big advocates for gun control. As for the “tax and spend” label, don’t make me laugh. Republicans are big spenders, too. They just spend on different things. Besides which, as I pointed out above, Jefferson was a generous (not to say profligate) spender both in his private life and during his time in office. (_See_, Purchase, Louisiana.) As for the “welfare state” argument, this is again a Republican smear/oversimplification. If Jefferson had lived through the Great Depression, I’m quite confident (given his compassionate nature) that he would have supported every one of FDR’s programs. (Like I said before, “different times, different issues.”) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996/35 "2001-11-20T17:33:17Z")
To elaborate on George Washington a bit: Washington fought tooth and nail to keep the Presidency non-partisan. He was deeply distressed when the major political parties began to coalesce (Federalists on the one side and Democratic Republicans on the other). The bickering and gamesmanship between Jefferson/Madison (Democratic Republicans) and Adams/Hamilton (Federalists) were a source of misery for him. During his term in office, he did everything in his power to try to bring the two sides together. Washington was a true independent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-founding-fathers-were-alive-what-party-would-they-be-in/93996.md?page=1)