# If the House votes to impeach, does the Senate have to have a trial? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943 "2018-07-15T12:32:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/41 "2018-07-17T11:44:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Cloture is generally 60 votes, not 2/3. Invoking cloture on a debate concerning a change of the standing rules is an exception; it requires a 2/3 majority. See [here (PDF).](https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/be873e40-a966-4feb-9d72-cf23a93cbe46.pdf) > [@](#): > > The majority required to invoke cloture for most business is three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn, or 60 votes if there are no vacancies in the Senate’s membership. However, invoking cloture on a measure or motion to amend the Senate’s standing rules requires the votes of two-thirds of the Senators present and voting, or 67 votes if all 100 Senators vote. Additionally, under precedents established on November 21, 2013, and April 6, 2017, invoking cloture on presidential nominations requires a vote of a majority of Senators present and voting, or 51 votes if all 100 Senators vote. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/42 "2018-07-17T13:29:52Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > Invoking cloture on a debate concerning a change of the standing rules is an exception; it requires a 2/3 majority. See [here (PDF).](https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/be873e40-a966-4feb-9d72-cf23a93cbe46.pdf) Isn’t there some loophole where a rule change can be made by a simple majority at the start of the yearly session or something? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/43 "2018-07-20T00:00:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Isn’t there some loophole where a rule change can be made by a simple majority at the start of the yearly session or something? That has never been tested. In Parliamentary Law, standing rules continue for the duration of the body unless amended or rescinded. With Congress, there is a school of thought that each session is a new body and and since the Senate does not want to test this, they vote at the beginning of each session to continue the rules from the session before. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/44 "2018-07-20T04:25:34Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution contains the word “shall” which is often interpreted as a command or requirement. > > \*\*emphasis \*\*mine > > At least as it regards and impeachment of the President the Chief Justice is required to preside over a trial in the Senate. So, IMHO, there has to be a trial. > > However there is no particular compulsion on issues such as timeliness. Could the Senate delay a trial until after a mid-term or general election? Perhaps. I gotta disagree with your textual analysis there, Iggy (Fargo voice 🙂 ) Under your logic, wouldn’t an impeachment be REQUIRED so that the Senate “shall” have a trial? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/45 "2018-11-18T20:31:47Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > …And the earlier post… the “shall” commandment I referred to is in relation to the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court… Nitpick: it’s the Chief Justice of the United States. > **[Who’s America’s top judge?](https://www.straightdope.com/21344057/who-s-america-s-top-judge)** > > A STAFF REPORT FROM THE STRAIGHT DOPE SCIENCE ADVISORY BOARD ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/46 "2018-11-25T16:16:30Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Ask yourself, not about Trump, but about the next populist who comes along. What if s/he isn’t corrupt but is pure and driven by ideology instead of greed (I’m thinking of Walter Huston’s character in the movie “Gabriel Over the White House” as an example, a truly terrifying movie)? _ **kaylasdad99** heads to wikipedia and reads the plot synopsis for GOtWH._ Yikes. I notice that W R Hearst was a financial backer of this movie _and_ a creative contributor. Did this facet of the Hearst legacy find its way into _Cirizen Kane_, I wonder (that’s right; I’ll say it: I’ve never watched _Citizen Kane_)? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/47 "2018-11-27T16:20:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I notice that W R Hearst was a financial backer of this movie _and_ a creative contributor. Did this facet of the Hearst legacy find its way into _Cirizen Kane_, I wonder (that’s right; I’ll say it: I’ve never watched _Citizen Kane_)? Nah. Hearst and the fictional Kane diverge significantly in that after running for Governor of New York (and losing), Hearst relocated to California and eventually dabbled in movie-making while the fictional Kane stayed in New York and dabbled in opera. This summary is superficial at best, so watch the movie already. At the very least, dozens of _Simpsons_ bits will suddenly make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/48 "2018-11-27T16:25:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Anyway, like I said before, what is the remedy? I don’t see that there is any. I think the remedy would be political, Mace. The voters would be the ultimate arbiter of the rightness of the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/49 "2018-11-28T00:34:24Z")
And to answer the OP : yes, [by statute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/background/impeach/senaterules.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/50 "2018-11-28T01:00:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And to answer the OP : yes, [by statute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/background/impeach/senaterules.pdf). Is that a statute? Looks like a Senate Rule. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943/51 "2018-11-28T03:41:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is that a statute? Looks like a Senate Rule. You’re right [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-house-votes-to-impeach-does-the-senate-have-to-have-a-trial/817943.md?page=2)