# If the moon disappeared, how would life on earth be affected? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 5, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431 "2006-08-05T05:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/21 "2006-08-06T01:40:43Z")
[QUOTE=thetruewheel] Don’t be too hard on kanicbird, the theory alluded to has some currency. [/QUOTE] How about Don’t be too hard on kanicbird, because he has it right, and it is the tidal effect on angular momentum that keeps the rotation stable, by acting as a corrective force to oppose other forces. (See **Stranger on a train** that angular momentum will only hold the rotation constant if there is NO other forces, I suggest you actually reading your cite for more info) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/22 "2006-08-06T01:59:52Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] How about Don’t be too hard on kanicbird, because he has it right, and it is the tidal effect on angular momentum that keeps the rotation stable, by acting as a corrective force to oppose other forces. [/QUOTE] Cite or model, please. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/23 "2006-08-06T02:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] Sometimes, when I’m feeling out of sorts at work and not really able to make sense of iptables or networking protocols, I just go to Dr. Gene Ray and read a few paragraphs about the Timecube, and it perks me right up. 4 Earth corners rotate 4 Time corners - for 4 simultaneous day rotation of Earth - equating the principle of a 4 pole motor. Academic bastards will deny the obvious. Americans are EVIL for ignoring Cubicism. Acknowledge the 4 days or you die evil. Do not pass this point without the 4 days. How can you not feel enlightened after reading that? 😉 [/QUOTE] It makes me feel like rolling up a bunch of styrofoam packing pellets in my high school diploma and smoking it, is what it makes me feel like. ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/24 "2006-08-06T02:40:00Z")
We wouldn’t have any more eclipses, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/25 "2006-08-06T07:56:21Z")
[QUOTE=Brain Wreck] It makes me feel like rolling up a bunch of styrofoam packing pellets in my high school diploma and smoking it, is what it makes me feel like. [/QUOTE] Not only do you get the Desenex burger… (If your comment wasn’t an FZ hommage, my apologies for being obscure.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/26 "2006-08-06T08:03:20Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] How about Don’t be too hard on kanicbird, because he has it right… [/QUOTE] I didn’t feel like rubbing it in. You can, of course; you’re the one who was on the business end of a fairly snippy comment. (Yes, I did notice; I just tend to be the type who likes to smooth things over if possible.) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/27 "2006-08-06T09:21:03Z")
IANA Science Guy, but it seems to me that if the moon was not there, the Earth might be hit by meteoroids and such more often. My understanding is that the moon takes quite a few hits that would otherwise hit Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/28 "2006-08-06T14:38:24Z")
[QUOTE=Alive At Both Ends] If the moon was just blown up without destroying its mass, things would be less drastic. Eventually lunar tides would disappear as the debris settled into a ring about the Earth, but this would take time and I suspect the effects on Earth would be minimal. [/QUOTE] Colour me puzzled here, but why is this less drastic? A ring of debris around Earth is not going to have as much gravitional force as a whole moon, right? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/29 "2006-08-06T16:23:49Z")
I think what was meant was that a blown up moon would still have a center of gravity very near where the moon’s originally was, thereby minimizing a sudden change to the system. A ring would not have any net effect on tides, but it would take a very long time for the ring to form, so that the changes would be gradual and again not cause any sudden disruption. The slope of the loss would be slight and the system would have lots of time to adjust. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/30 "2006-08-06T17:08:29Z")
[QUOTE=ExtraKun] Colour me puzzled here, but why is this less drastic? A ring of debris around Earth is not going to have as much gravitional force as a whole moon, right? [/QUOTE] WEll, the tides might be affected, as the mass is now more evenly dispersed around the planet, but the mass itself is still there. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/31 "2006-08-06T17:34:34Z")
As I recall, the presence of the Moon stabilizes Earth’s tilt; without it asteroid impacts and internal mass shifts can alter a planets tilt, or cause it’s crust to slide into a new position over the liquid interior. Supposedly this has happend to Mars; the pattern of cratering shows it’s crust was once angled differently. I haven’t been able to find a cite yet and am going by memory on this, however. This of course would drastically change the climate. Without the Moon tidal drag from the Sun might lock Earth’s rotation into some sort of resonance with the Sun like Venus’s; that’s a very long term concern however. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/32 "2006-08-06T19:56:53Z")
[QUOTE=Rumpleforskin] If the moon was blown up, or ceased to exist somehow, how would life on earth be affected? Obviously no moonlite, and no tides I guess. Would it be catastrophic for us? [/QUOTE] [Cecil answers: I plan to destroy the moon. What would this do to the earth?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/001027.html) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/33 "2006-08-07T00:39:05Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] As I recall, the presence of the Moon stabilizes Earth’s tilt; without it asteroid impacts and internal mass shifts can alter a planets tilt, or cause it’s crust to slide into a new position over the liquid interior. Supposedly this has happend to Mars; the pattern of cratering shows it’s crust was once angled differently. I haven’t been able to find a cite yet and am going by memory on this, however. This of course would drastically change the climate. Without the Moon tidal drag from the Sun might lock Earth’s rotation into some sort of resonance with the Sun like Venus’s; that’s a very long term concern however. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure that absolutely none of this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/34 "2006-08-07T00:50:38Z")
[QUOTE=thetruewheel] I didn’t feel like rubbing it in. You can, of course; you’re the one who was on the business end of a fairly snippy comment. [/QUOTE] When did a correction to a factual misstatement become a “snippy comment”? Let’s review; **kanicbird** states as an unqualified fact that: > [@kanicbird](#): > > The moon helps stabilize the earths rotation, take it away and the earth could just spin any ol’ way it feels like. He offers no reference, cite, or support for this claim, which is, on its face, at odds with Euler’s expansion of Newton’s concept of inertia to rotational motion, which asserts that a body rotating about an axis of inertial symmetry will only change momentum in response to an external couple. The Moon, of course, provides a couple, lying in an orbit 5 degrees off of the ecliptic, while the Sun does the same. Both (as well as, to a much lesser extent, the other planets) contribute to the precessional and nutational motion of the Earth, which causes it to wobble. Now, if the above statement were formulated as conjecture–something like “It’s possible that the Moon provides stability that keeps the Earth near its 23.5 degree angle to the ecliptic”–then take becomes a perfectly valid speculative claim. **kanicbird** could then cite, say, [this paper](http://www.imcce.fr/Equipes/ASD/preprints/prep.2003/th2002_laskar.pdf) (warning: PDF), in support of that claim. I’ll note that Laskar’s paper is long on speculation and short on actual data–if the paper I’m currently writing on the topic of slag accumulation in solid boosters were this thin I’d never get invited to speak at the AIAA conference next year–and that he cites himself (sometimes with collaborators) more than is strictly healthy (more than half of his total references are previous papers he’s written or cowritten) but at least its a staging point for discussion. Instead, **kanicbird** provides completely unsupported speculation as plenary fact, which will then no doubt be repeated by someone else, perpetuating the kind of unquestioning promulgation of supposition that so feeds ignorance. If one is not prepared to be challenged, provide citation or qualification, and discuss, then one should stick with topics where everybody is right all the time–say, something like postmodern art criticism. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/35 "2006-08-07T01:08:56Z")
There was a novel by Ramsey Campbell–I forget the name of it–where the good guys defeated the bad guys by destrying the moon. Campbell concluded that there would be no adverse effects beyond the loss of tides and moonlight, and I just sort of took his word for it. As I write this, _Three Moons over Milford_ is on. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/36 "2006-08-07T01:21:11Z")
[QUOTE=Krokodil] _Three Moons over Milford_ [/QUOTE] I think that is the inspiration for the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/37 "2006-08-07T01:41:42Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] I’m pretty sure that absolutely none of this is true. [/QUOTE] Hmmm, googling : [link](http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/apr142004/snt6.asp) > [@](#): > > The gravitational pull from the planets of Jupiter in case of Mars causes the tilt to change, while the same for Earth is due to the large moon. **The large angular momentum stored in the Earth-Moon system makes the change happen in obliquity to no more than about 1.5°. Mars, which does not have a large moon to orbit around undergoes larger oscillations.** During the last few million years, its obliquity might have varied between 10° - 40° in quasi-periodic oscillations. This was established by J Laskar and P Robutel in 1993. They showed that obliquities of the terrestrial planets are not primordial. They found, that ‘terrestrial planets could have experienced large, chaotic variations in obliquity at some time in the past. The obliquity of Mars is still in a large chaotic region, ranging from 0° to 60°. Mercury and Venus have been stabilised by tidal dissipation, and the Earth may have been stabilised by capture of the Moon. None of the can therefore be considered as primordial. Bolding mine; it’s the best cite I can find thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/38 "2006-08-07T03:25:18Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] As I recall, the presence of the Moon stabilizes Earth’s tilt; without it asteroid impacts and internal mass shifts can alter a planets tilt, or cause it’s crust to slide into a new position over the liquid interior. Supposedly this has happend to Mars; the pattern of cratering shows it’s crust was once angled differently. I haven’t been able to find a cite yet and am going by memory on this, however. This of course would drastically change the climate. [/quote] Yes, the moon stabilizes the Earth’s tilt, but I was thinking of the rest of that sentence. The same authors you cite dispute it, not only in the very cite you give, but in other articles as well: [http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-4/p71.html](http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-4/p71.html) > [@](#): > > Today, Mars’s obliquity is 25.2°, similar to Earth’s at 23.5°. The gravitational pull from the planets–primarily Jupiter–causes that tilt to change, much like the wobble of a spinning top. Nothing about asteroid impacts, internal mass shifts, or crust sliding. And then this sentence: > [@](#): > > Without the Moon tidal drag from the Sun might lock Earth’s rotation into some sort of resonance with the Sun like Venus’s; that’s a very long term concern however. is given as a speculation with no backup in your cite. I don’t think many other scientists agree with it even as a speculation, however. Comins gives a very different scenario in his book, cited above. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/39 "2006-08-07T03:49:15Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] How about Don’t be too hard on kanicbird, because he has it right, and it is the tidal effect on angular momentum that keeps the rotation stable, by acting as a corrective force to oppose other forces. [/QUOTE] What other forces? Tell us again how Venus manages to stay right way up with no moons at all? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431/40 "2006-08-07T04:57:16Z")
Mostly, it would remove the werewolf problem, once and for all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-moon-disappeared-how-would-life-on-earth-be-affected/367431.md?page=3)