# "If the Tea Party Was Black" music video... do you think they're right or wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635 "2010-09-30T18:07:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/41 "2010-10-01T13:32:20Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > They didn’t send the _army_ after the Branch Davidians or Randy Weaver (Posse Comitatus, I believe), but they did send in heavy armor after the former. For _far less_ than what the Tea Party (and all those Idaho-style militias) is doing now. That stuff might have been BATF but when you’re staring down their barrels it looks like regular army to me. > > The word “army” was a figure of speech and not too wild eyed considering the level of firepower that law enforcement has leveled against people who did not represent a threat to anyone (and I stand by that because of the lack of meaningful convictions of the Branch Davidian survivors). I’m not doing the damned Davidian shuffle again, but I do wonder what Black folks would have to do to get a similar response … oh wait I remember now, bullhorns and compost piles, > [@](#): > > [**1985 bombing**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing) > > In 1981, MOVE relocated to a row house at 6221 Osage Avenue in the Cobbs Creek area of West Philadelphia. On May 13, 1985, allegedly responding to months of complaints by neighbors that MOVE members broadcast political messages by bullhorn at all hours and also about the health hazards posed by the piles of compost, the police department claimed that they attempted to clear the building. The police lobbed tear gas canisters at the building and the fire department battered the roof of the house with two water cannons. The police fired 10,000 rounds at the house in two hours. A police helicopter then dropped a four-pound bomb made of C-4 plastic explosive and Tovex, a dynamite substitute, onto the roof of the house without any prior warning. The resulting explosion caused the house to catch fire, igniting a massive blaze which eventually destroyed 65 houses. Eleven people, including John Africa, five other adults and five children, died in the resulting fire. The firefighters were stopped from putting out the fire based on allegations that firefighters were being shot at, a claim that was contested by the lone adult survivor Ramona Africa, who says that the firefighters had earlier battered the house with two deluge pumps when there was no fire. Ramona Africa and one child, Birdie Africa, were the only survivors. > > Mayor W. Wilson Goode soon appointed an investigative commission called the PSIC or MOVE commission. It issued its report on March 6, 1986. The report denounced the actions of the city government, stating that “Dropping a bomb on an occupied row house was unconscionable.” > > In a 1996 civil suit in US federal court, a jury ordered the City of Philadelphia to pay $1.5 million to a survivor and relatives of two people killed in the incident. The jury found that the city used excessive force and violated the members’ constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure. Philadelphia was given the sobriquet “The City that Bombed Itself.” Maybe someone else would like to remind us what the Davidians did in response to a search warrant, and who started that fire. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/42 "2010-10-01T14:41:58Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > That’s just ridiculous. Obama is just another example of the march to the right that has been going on in American politics for decades. He’s a right wing corporatist who would have fit in perfectly not too long ago as a Republican, if it wasn’t for his skin color. He’s moderate right wing; not left wing, not even a centrist. > > I wonder if the other lefties on this board agree with your positions. Since nobody ever says anything, I have to assume that you are the voice of the SMDB left. It’s clear we have ‘if you’re in Hawii then even California looks East’ syndrome at work here again. Obama is moving far to the right of what I want. Although I’ll never vote against him in 2012. There’s no way we’re getting anyone to the left of Obama in the Primaries who can survive the onslaught of the far, far Right. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m not doing the damned Davidian shuffle again, but I do wonder what Black folks would have to do to get a similar response … oh wait I remember now, bullhorns and compost piles, Ah, I did forget about that. (How could I possibly ever do so? I was watching a Japanese anime as a 14 year old when news of this broke out and the whole family was talking about it for MONTHS!) That was just 25 years ago. Yup, the music video is spot on. We ain’t changed all that much since then. The Tea Party shows, in fact, that we’ve lost ground. (And if someone says they’re not racist, then explain to me why these protests didn’t happen during the Bush years?) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/43 "2010-10-01T15:21:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > > Finally, I’m pretty sure some of the tea party [is](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38558455/) black. I’m reasonably sure Alan Keyes calls himself a member, for example. > > A minuscule amount. I hear the claim that they aren’t racists, aren’t almost all white yet never see any evidence of this, but do see plenty of evidence of their whiteness and racism. I recall a certain recent poster (now banned so no names) kept trying to claim they weren’t overwhelming white, claimed that he’d seen TP rallies with plenty of black people, yet refused even to acknowledge requests for evidence of that. > > They are overwhelmingly a movement composed of white racists, regardless of your desire to pretend they are something they are not. They’re not all racists, some of them are just selfish and don’t care who they hang out with as long as it means lower taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/44 "2010-10-01T15:26:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There’s no such thing as “compassionate conservatism”; conservatism is and always has been about greed and hatred, not compassion. That’s not true. The hatred is not 'what its about", its a tool, its how you get the poor people to go along with stuff that is only going to help rich people. > [@](#): > > All of them? Where doesn’t he? Even his supposed “health care reform” is just a revived Republican plan. I was a bit perlexed when someone showed me a Republican counterproposal to Hilarycare that sounded a lot like the current plan except the Republican proposal had a Public Option… WTF!!! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/45 "2010-10-01T16:19:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They’re not all racists, some of them are just selfish and don’t care who they hang out with as long as it means lower taxes. How come they weren’t out there protesting when McCain voted with Obama for the bank bailouts? Why weren’t they talking about praying for the President’s death on Facebook when the deficit was raging during the Bush years? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/46 "2010-10-01T23:10:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Jim Jones was not a political figure. He was praised for genuine humanitarian efforts. The celebritities who occasionally said good things about him knew of his humanitarian efforts, but they did not know him personally. This attempt at character assassination by vague association is really puerile. > > Jesus himself was a Communist, by the way. I agree, I was calling out Der Trihs’ hypocraisy because he would condemn all of the Tea Party if hypothetically one member committed violence. For that matter Der Trihs as you’ll see below doesn’t like humanitarians who differ with his views on metaphysics. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And what does it matter what political affiliation Jones may have had? The 70s were a very long time ago. There has been a great deal of political change since then. Than what does it matter what viewpoint Koresh or McVeigh may have had? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/47 "2010-10-01T23:39:12Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > For that matter Der Trihs as you’ll see below doesn’t like humanitarians who differ with his views on metaphysics. No, I just don’t believe that believers ARE humanitarians very often, or very good at it even if they try; they are much more concerned with pushing their religion than helping people, and don’t even consider the importance of actual people most of the time. Just their souls. killing thousands or millions of people because you are trying to help save them from sin is still killing them. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > And what does it matter what political affiliation Jones may have had? The 70s were a very long time ago. There has been a great deal of political change since then. > > Than what does it matter what viewpoint Koresh or McVeigh may have had? Because McVeigh is still representative of much of the right wing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/48 "2010-10-01T23:46:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > There’s no such thing as “compassionate conservatism”; conservatism is and always has been about greed and hatred, not compassion. > > That’s not true. The hatred is not 'what its about", its a tool, its how you get the poor people to go along with stuff that is only going to help rich people. You presume that the rich people aren’t just as hate filled. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/49 "2010-10-01T23:49:51Z")
> [@](#): > > No, I just don’t believe that believers ARE humanitarians very often, or very good at it even if they try; they are much more concerned with pushing their religion than helping people, and don’t even consider the importance of actual people most of the time. Just their souls. killing thousands or millions of people because you are trying to help save them from sin is still killing them. That seems to be a ‘strawman’ fundie argument. Have you ever talked to a relatively intelligent fundamentalist? > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Than what does it matter what viewpoint Koresh or McVeigh may have had? Because McVeigh is still representative of much of the right wing. [/QUOTE] And Jones’ views are representative of the Far Left hippie types. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/50 "2010-10-01T23:56:37Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > No, I just don’t believe that believers ARE humanitarians very often, or very good at it even if they try; they are much more concerned with pushing their religion than helping people, and don’t even consider the importance of actual people most of the time. Just their souls. killing thousands or millions of people because you are trying to help save them from sin is still killing them. > > That seems to be a ‘strawman’ fundie argument. Have you ever talked to a relatively intelligent fundamentalist? That’s something of an oxymoron. A fundamentalist is either stupid or is refusing to use what brains he has. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Than what does it matter what viewpoint Koresh or McVeigh may have had? > > > > > [@Der Trihs](#): > > > > > > Because McVeigh is still representative of much of the right wing. > > And Jones’ views are representative of the Far Left hippie types. Even if they were, so what? All ten of them? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/51 "2010-10-02T00:16:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > That seems to be a ‘strawman’ fundie argument. Have you ever talked to a relatively intelligent fundamentalist? > > That’s something of an oxymoron. A fundamentalist is either stupid or is refusing to use what brains he has. > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > And Jones’ views are representative of the Far Left hippie types. > > Even if they were, so what? All ten of them? And very few conservatives would seriously advocate violence. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/52 "2010-10-02T00:21:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And very few conservatives would seriously advocate violence. :rolleyes: Oh, please. Thuggishness is a hallmark of conservatism. They threaten violence all the time. And indulge in it; there’s nothing more conservative than a gay bashing or setting some homeless guy on fire for fun. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/53 "2010-10-02T00:56:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > And very few conservatives would seriously advocate violence. > > :rolleyes: Oh, please. Thuggishness is a hallmark of conservatism. They threaten violence all the time. And indulge in it; there’s nothing more conservative than a gay bashing or setting some homeless guy on fire for fun. Dammit, Der Trihs, you must be kidding me. Are you saying most conservatives are some sort of cartoon villains who laugh maniacally as they snatch bread away from a beggar or set him on fire? ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/54 "2010-10-02T01:29:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > :rolleyes: Oh, please. Thuggishness is a hallmark of conservatism. They threaten violence all the time. And indulge in it; there’s nothing more conservative than a gay bashing or setting some homeless guy on fire for fun. > > Dammit, Der Trihs, you must be kidding me. Are you saying most conservatives are some sort of cartoon villains who laugh maniacally as they snatch bread away from a beggar or set him on fire? I can’t speak for **Der Trihs** , but, even putting aside violent methods, conservatives tend to consider righteous fury and threats of violence to be signs of commendable pride and machismo. And this goes straight to the heart of Time Wise’s point: when white conservatives get mad, it’s considered an example of admirable patriotism; when blacks get mad, it’s viewed as an imminent threat to social order that must be suppressed using any and all possible methods. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/55 "2010-10-02T02:33:12Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And Jones’ views are representative of the Far Left hippie types. No, they were representative of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/56 "2010-10-02T06:57:24Z")
Whether or not you agree with the politics of that song, you have to admit it _is_ quite the earworm. I’ve had it stuck in my head most of the day, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/57 "2010-10-02T07:27:28Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > That’s something of an oxymoron. A fundamentalist is either stupid or is refusing to use what brains he has. > > > > Even if they were, so what? All ten of them? > > And very few conservatives would seriously advocate violence. Tell that fairy tale to the guys [bringing guns to townhall meetings](http://www.examiner.com/eau-claire-county-progressive-in-madison/protestors-bring-guns-to-town-hall-meetings) or all those militia boys out there driving up the price of ammunition with mass bullet buying sprees as of late. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/58 "2010-10-02T15:34:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > And Jones’ views are representative of the Far Left hippie types. > > No, they were representative of Christianity. Actually Jim Jones ended up becoming critical of Christianity. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim\_Jones#Move\_to\_San\_Francisco](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones#Move_to_San_Francisco) > [@](#): > > Jones began deriding traditional Christianity as “fly away religion,” rejecting the Bible as being white men’s’ justification to subordinate women and subjugate people of color and stating that it spoke of a “Sky God” who was no God at all.[12] Jones authored a booklet titled “The Letter Killeth,” criticizing the King James Bible.[39] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/59 "2010-10-02T17:10:16Z")
That didn’t stop him from using Christianity to manipulate people, and both his humanitarianism and his “socialism” were derived from Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635/60 "2010-10-02T17:40:21Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > But yeah, it would be treated different if black men were the ones showing up armed, threatening congressmen and calling for civil war and domestic terrorism like some members of the tea party do. Indeed, leukomasochistic liberals would cream their pants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-the-tea-party-was-black-music-video-do-you-think-theyre-right-or-wrong/555635.md?page=4)