# If there is monarchy in UK, and people dislike it why don't they protest against it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261 "2012-10-29T21:30:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/61 "2012-10-31T21:35:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Tell that to the Irish. Well, yes. I was writing specifically about his impact on England - perhaps I should have been clearer. I don’t think what I said detracts from that. In any case, Cromwell was not the only person committing atrocities in Ireland; I daresay they would have taken place under a different Lord Protector. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/62 "2012-10-31T21:41:49Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > Probably those enjoying the influence of the NHS, the BBC, the welfare state, lesser reach of the Catholic church, the better roads etc\*. > > I’d be happy with a united Ireland, if someone could explain what I (apparently an Irish Catholic) would get out of it. > > \*I know there’s fresh tarmac on the roads for some time now in the Republic, but sign posting remains awful. A bushel of the _craic_. Also we get the BBC without paying for it. Booyah! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/63 "2012-10-31T21:51:16Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > You’ve got the wrong guy Guin. The official ambassador of British dopers to the Irish is Lust4Life, not Mr. Capell. Could you not find a better one? ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/64 "2012-10-31T23:45:55Z")
> [@MrBerious](#): > > There is no big group of Irish immigrants who pretend to integrate but preach hate to their kids in private(one wonders how the fuck he’d know what goes on behind closed doors anyway). To suggest otherwise is the ravings of a bigoted loon. While it is true that Noraid raised most of their money in the US, they also were present in Britain. No question. I would say that any money they raised in Britain was from people who were doing exactly what you say no one was. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/65 "2012-10-31T23:52:34Z")
I think part of the problem over here is the idea that although most in the UK support the monarchy ans almost everyone loves the Queen, we keep hearing the the day she oversteps her bounds by actually doing something like withholding Royal Assent on _A Bill Requiring Recompence of Purloined Pussies_ she’d be out on her arse in a heartbeat. Seems kind of dichotomous to us Colonists. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/66 "2012-10-31T23:59:05Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think part of the problem over here is the idea that although most in the UK support the monarchy ans almost everyone loves the Queen, we keep hearing the the day she oversteps her bounds by actually doing something like withholding Royal Assent on _A Bill Requiring Recompence of Purloined Pussies_ she’d be out on her arse in a heartbeat. Seems kind of dichotomous to us Colonists. Royal Assent still serves a purpose, but it’s no longer anything like the presidential veto in the US, which is where I think the confusion lies. We no longer expect the Queen to refuse Assent, unless, say, it were an Act that undermined the democratic nature of the constitution (such as, say, doing away with regular elections, or allowing the government to set tax without the consent of the Commons). Royal Assent has instead evolved on a day to day basis as a means of certification, really - it signifies that said Act has been through due process and passed all the proper procedures in Parliament, and is therefore given the force of law. A bit like a director signing off on a project. If the Queen ever forget the day to day purpose of Royal Assent, and tried to use it like a presidential veto, then we’d eject her. ---
**Author:** ![nomdenet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4af34b/32.png) [@nomdenet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nomdenet)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/67 "2012-11-01T01:09:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think part of the problem over here is the idea that although most in the UK support the monarchy ans almost everyone loves the Queen, we keep hearing the the day she oversteps her bounds by actually doing something like withholding Royal Assent on _A Bill Requiring Recompence of Purloined Pussies_ she’d be out on her arse in a heartbeat. Seems kind of dichotomous to us Colonists. I think some UK posters in this thread have overstated the degree of reverence in which the monarch is held. The truth is that, for most British people, the monarchy, royalty and all that are of little consequence. Expressing a dislike for the queen is no more unusual or controversial than a US citizen criticising the president, except that a US president is also a political figure, and so takes the flak that is delegated to the prime minister in the British system. There is, however, widespread support in the UK for the _institution_ of monarchy, but only on the current model, of a head of state who represents the nation but is apolitical. The idea of the monarch being involved in decision making, let alone actually vetoing bills that have been approved by parliament, is alien to the way the people view the role of the monarch. The monarch is a figurehead, no more, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/68 "2012-11-01T01:38:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think part of the problem over here is the idea that although most in the UK support the monarchy ans almost everyone loves the Queen, we keep hearing the the day she oversteps her bounds by actually doing something like withholding Royal Assent on _A Bill Requiring Recompence of Purloined Pussies_ she’d be out on her arse in a heartbeat. Seems kind of dichotomous to us Colonists. It’s a super, duper, emergency thing. Like if Hitler tried to come to power. Were assent refused, then the government of the day would be rendered entirely illegitimate. Of course were it tyrannical enough then that is not going to stop it but it completely prevents stealth tyranny (except of the usual kinds such as tax). ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/69 "2012-11-01T01:42:19Z")
Furthermore please be aware that the monarch and those in line to the throne do a LOT behind the scenes. There is currently a big foo fa about FOI requests to see what Prince Charles said to ministers during a certain period of time. I say certain period of time because when it became clear what he was writing was subject to the FOI, at least potentially, the act was modified. So we still have these letters from that period of time with very much argy-bargy going on - to the extent that government ministers used the opportunity to overrule the courts. Plenty about it if you want to google, almost none of it remotely objective. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/70 "2012-11-01T05:19:37Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > A bushel of the _craic_. Also we get the BBC without paying for it. Booyah! You mean whiskey? We’ve got some nice stuff ourselves from the north coast. Although apparently that’s “protestant” whiskey and according to America I should feel as bad for drinking that as Catholics here said I should be for going to school with protestants :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/71 "2012-11-01T07:40:30Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > Who is the “you” in “your island”? The Irish, north and south. I sure don’t hold the property title… and it’s not my fault if distinguishing different "you"s is a bitch in English. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/72 "2012-11-01T10:01:40Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > The Irish, north and south. I sure don’t hold the property title… and it’s not my fault if distinguishing different "you"s is a bitch in English. Sorry, my fault, I just don’t tend to eye up people with their ethnic purity in mind. Which Irish is it? The Irish up North don’t seem to be quite the same Irish I see on the TV down south, or when I go to the North West to buy petrol. Not sure I’m so keen on either type to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/73 "2012-11-01T14:46:33Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > You do need to be very clear about the difference between Britain as a monarchy, and the house of Windsor. If there was some sort of strange disaster, where a wormhole opened up and devoured Balmoral whilst the entire extended Windsor clan were there, Britain would still be a monarchy. Parliament, in consultation with some Commonwealth countries, would have to look back to find the appropriate heir, and they would be offered the job… Agreed. There are quite a few people in line to the throne: [Succession to the British throne - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Line_of_Succession) This Wiki article on British republicanism might be of interest: [Republicanism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_republicanism). See the section “21st century.” ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/74 "2012-11-01T18:35:18Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > You mean whiskey? We’ve got some nice stuff ourselves from the north coast. Although apparently that’s “protestant” whiskey and according to America I should feel as bad for drinking that as Catholics here said I should be for going to school with protestants :rolleyes: I like Blackbush but the standard Bushmills is pretty harsh going by Mexican standards. It’s like a cross between an Irish and Scottish whiskey in flavour imho. A Dal Riata? 🙂 I only ever heard of that Protestant whiskey thing from _The Wire_. It was a pretty funny line. Bushmills has been calling itself Irish (whatever that means 🙂 ) for centuries as far as I can see. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/75 "2012-11-01T18:42:16Z")
> [@MrBerious](#): > > There is no big group of Irish immigrants who pretend to integrate but preach hate to their kids in private(one wonders how the fuck he’d know what goes on behind closed doors anyway). To suggest otherwise is the ravings of a bigoted loon. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/76 "2012-11-01T18:44:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Agreed. There are quite a few people in line to the throne: [Succession to the British throne - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Line_of_Succession) > > This Wiki article on British republicanism might be of interest: [Republicanism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_republicanism). See the section “21st century.” The interesting bit in the second link is the list of supporters of the abolition of the Monarchy. Looking at that list I absolutely convinced the Monarchy must be a GOOD THING. If Tony Benn, Michael Mansfield, and Will Self are against it I’ve got to be in favour 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/77 "2012-11-01T19:10:40Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > No he was spot on, and the fact that you’ve had to raise strawmen doesn’t exactly help your case. > > If I moved to a strict Islamic country of my own accord, then I would be a total hypocrite and coward if I whined about not being able to drink alcohol, and demanded that they change their laws to suit me. > > If I honestly felt that strongly about it then I should move back home. > > Mind you if I felt so strongly about it, I shouldn’t emigrate there in the first place. > > Too many Irish Nationalists want their cake and eat it. Sorry, but I take issue with the idea that when I move to a country I am no longer allowed any critical thought about that country. I come from one monarchy (The Netherlands) and have lived in another (the UK) and am strongly against the two groups of upper-class eejits who call themselves the monarchy having as much as a nominal say in either place. For the record, I’ve also lived in two republics (Ireland and Italy) and have rather a lot to say about how those were governed too. A country is never a homogeneous hive mind of one opinion and even within a country the natives might disagree and they might also benefit from an outsider offering a different perspective. I don’t believe in anyone teaching hatred and I always aim to discuss things in a reasonable way, but I don’t think the right to an opinion on any given topic should depend on where you come from. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/78 "2012-11-01T20:03:20Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > The interesting bit in the second link is the list of supporters of the abolition of the Monarchy. Looking at that list I absolutely convinced the Monarchy must be a GOOD THING. If Tony Benn, Michael Mansfield, and Will Self are against it I’ve got to be in favour 😃 Feeling on this subject divides largely on party lines here. If you hold conservative views, you are for monarchy. You don’t get Conservative republicans here. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/79 "2012-11-01T20:28:06Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Feeling on this subject divides largely on party lines here. If you hold conservative views, you are for monarchy. You don’t get Conservative republicans here. I don’t think that’s strictly true. I haven’t got any specifics but I have encountered a fair number of anti-monarchist (or even just not caring) conservatives. One in particular was hateful of the monarchy as an example of contradicting meritocracy. There’s also plenty of leftwing monarchists. Many of the classic leftwing politicians were quite proud of the monarchy, and even George Orwell had kind things to say about it. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261/80 "2012-11-02T16:02:13Z")
> [@nomdenet](#): > > I think some UK posters in this thread have overstated the degree of reverence in which the monarch is held. The truth is that, for most British people, the monarchy, royalty and all that are of little consequence. Expressing a dislike for the queen is no more unusual or controversial than a US citizen criticising the president, except that a US president is also a political figure, and so takes the flak that is delegated to the prime minister in the British system. > There is, however, widespread support in the UK for the _institution_ of monarchy, but only on the current model, of a head of state who represents the nation but is apolitical. The idea of the monarch being involved in decision making, let alone actually vetoing bills that have been approved by parliament, is alien to the way the people view the role of the monarch. The monarch is a figurehead, no more, no less. No sorry me old mucker you’re completely wrong. We wouldn’t consider slagging off the Queen as inoffensive as as an American slagging off the President. As I said earlier you’d to have to be a very brave man indeed to try slagging her off in any public place. As there seems to be some confusion about the Queens role as head of state, I’ll expand. The monarch is the nearest thing that you can get as an “Honest Broker”, any where in world politics. Independantly wealthy, with every noble title you can think of and holding high military ranks, she can not be bribed with money, position or power. OR with the threat of losing her position by politicians wheeling and dealing. She is not a member of any political party, is not allowed to be and is not allowed to express any political opinions, or campaign for anyone. When a bill goes through Parliamentary process it only becomes law when the monarch signs it. The monarch does not refuse to sign it because of her/his opinions or on whimsy. If a government decided to stay in power after losing an election, or didn’t call for elections within the customary period,or called a State of Emergency for no good reason, or decided to do something radical that wasn’t in their election manifesto, like nationalising the banks, or putting all Jehovahs Witnesses in work camps etc Then the Leader of the opposition would go to the Queen , the Queen would consult with constitutional lawyers, and then dissolve Parliament until elections had been held. The Queen then effectively goes on strike. She will not give Royal Assent to ANY bill put before her until a new government has been elected. This means that Civil Servants will not be punished individually or in groups for failing to put the bill through process, members of the Inland Revenue will not institute new taxes, H.M. Customs will not collect new duties, the Police will not enforce new laws, or the Armed Forces engage in new military actions, all without any of them being subjected to any form of disciplinary action, individually or as a a group, until a government voted for in free and fair elections with a secret ballot has been elected and THEN put the bill/s though the Parliamentary process. The beauty of the system is, that as politicians, high or low are fully aware of this, nobody even bothers to try and usurp the democratic process. Whats the point of stealing a gold bar if you know that its going to turn to dust in your hands ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-is-monarchy-in-uk-and-people-dislike-it-why-dont-they-protest-against-it/639261.md?page=5)