# If there was a gap between North and South America, and Columbus managed to miss both, how much trouble would he have been in? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 9, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915 "2024-07-09T02:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/61 "2024-07-11T08:53:25Z")
Well, he did leave a few people behind to set up the first European settlement in the Americas, La Navidad. When he returned the next year on his second voyage, he found that La Navidad had been destroyed in fights between the Spanish and the native Taino. But Columbus did find his way back to the site of La Navidad, so he can’t have been all that incompetent as a navigator. He wasn’t just sailing west with no further clue as to where he’d end up. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/62 "2024-07-11T12:26:00Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > But Columbus did find his way back to the site of La Navidad, so he can’t have been all that incompetent as a navigator. He wasn’t just sailing west with no further clue as to where he’d end up. I would imagine that finding your latitude was a simple task that most navigators could do by then. Longitude was a more complex question not solved for centuries, but the sailors did do speed measurements which combined with compass headings, gave them a rough idea how far east-west they’d gone. Meanwhile, certain landmarks could confirm positions once they made landfall in previously seen territory. For the OP, I suppose the issue as already mentioned was the conflict between supplies sufficient to return and the hints (birds, plant debris) hinting they were near land. From the Azores to Bahamas is about 3000 miles, and supposedly by then the supplies were pushing the limit for a return. It’s 8,000 miles from the Azores to Hawaii, and 9,000 to French Polynesia. It would have been a difficult journey if he were lucky enough to spot land by then, assuming he planned for a maximum 3500 mile trip wih supplies for return? If he missed those - well, there’s the lesson of Magellan. He appears to have sailed through much of Polynesia until he hit Guam, without seeing any of the scattered islands. About 8,000 miles and 3 months with scurvy and desperation toward the end. I also wonder with the “look how I persevered against the odds” quality of Columbus’ story, whether he made up a lot of the “talk of mutiny” pressure to puff up his character and apparent heroic success against obstacles. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/63 "2024-07-12T14:54:42Z")
Rodrigo, not Diego , though there was a far more great and famous Diego in Sevilla in the 90s… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/64 "2024-07-12T19:57:26Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > What do you people think > > > [@ftg](#): > > > > Note: Assume I’ve tacked on 1000 wink smilies after the above. > > meant? It means you felt as happy as the dolphin in the image I attached while you spread misinformation? Assume I tacked on 1000 tongue sticking out smilies after the above. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/65 "2024-07-12T21:59:48Z")
So obvious jokes (quite explicitly denoted as such) are now “misinformation”? I hate to be around when someone starts with “A priest and a rabbi walk into a bar …” only to have you start shouting “Lies!”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/66 "2024-07-13T00:15:48Z")
[Moderating] Let’s just assume that both of you were joking, and leave it at that. Or if you’re not satisfied with that, then take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/67 "2024-07-13T16:02:28Z")
Did Columbus not know how to feed his crew from the bounty of the oceans? Hooks lines sinkers? Tuna Mahi mahi Snag sea birds? ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/68 "2024-07-13T19:05:02Z")
I don’t recall reading any of those old sea travel stories where fishing for food was a common thing? Was there someting about fishing too far from land being slim pickings? (Most of the prime fishing seems to be not far offshore) Or would it be that a ship under sail was too fast to be dropping fishing lines? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/69 "2024-07-13T19:23:43Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Or would it be that a ship under sail was too fast to be dropping fishing lines? They could drop sails and stop if that was the case. Maybe deep sea fishing was a different skill. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/70 "2024-07-13T19:29:02Z")
Surely it can be assumed there was a dinghy onboard. Columbus row the boat astern Hallelujah ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/71 "2024-07-13T19:31:03Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I don’t recall reading any of those old sea travel stories where fishing for food was a common thing? Was there someting about fishing too far from land being slim pickings? (Most of the prime fishing seems to be not far offshore) Or would it be that a ship under sail was too fast to be dropping fishing lines? I think it’s more “slim pickings” far from land than the speed of a vessel. The food chain in the ocean ultimately depends on phytoplankton which is itself dependent on sunlight and nutrients. Nutrients come from sediment from the land that is transported by the surface runoff of water, streams, rivers, and wind (and so occurs near the coasts) as well as upwellings from the bottom of the ocean (where nutrients have settled due to the death of marine organisms). In the open ocean the water is typically too deep and stratified for there to be much overturning of nutrients and and so any nutrients that settle to the bottom are slowly moved along by bottom currents until they hit an upwelling which typically happens where the water is shallower (i.e. near coasts). All this means that most fisheries are relatively near the coasts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/72 "2024-07-13T19:55:31Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Was there someting about fishing too far from land being slim pickings? Right, fish congregate in certain hot spots. Reffs, up swellings of plankton, etc. It is also that water and scurvy was the real issues. Fish will not prevent scurvy. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/73 "2024-07-13T20:28:48Z")
There are fish in the open ocean,tuna mackerel swordfish sharks. They may show up near coastal waters for different reasons but they are truly an open ocean species. [What are pelagic fish?](https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/pelagic.html#:~:text=Pelagic%20fish%20inhabit%20the%20water,that%20drift%20with%20ocean%20currents). No need to slow the sail, drop a trolling line. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/74 "2024-07-13T23:03:21Z")
There’s a cite that talks about the food aboard the voyage. > [@](#): > > The menu for Spanish seamen consisted of water, vinegar, wine, olive oil, molasses, cheese, honey, raisins, rice, garlic, almonds, sea biscuits (hardtack), dry legumes such as chickpeas, lentils, beans, salted and barreled sardines, anchovies, dry salt cod and pickled or salted meats (beef and pork), salted flour. > > The olive oil and olives were stored in earthenware jugs. The rest of the food was stored in wooden casks which could hold produce like meat preserved in brine, or dry goods. All were stored in the hold, the driest section of which was reserved for casks carrying dry provisions. A cooper (barrel maker) was responsible for keeping the casks tight. Problem was the casks with brine would leak, the casks with dry goods would let water in. It was easy to loose much of your food and water. > > The food was mainly boiled and served in a large communal wooden bowl. The sailors had no forks or spoons, but each sailor carried an all purpose knife, that he could use to cut large chunks. The only means of cooking was an open firebox called “Fogon.” It had a back to screen it from the wind. Sand was spread on the floor of the box and a wood fire built on it. > > Fish was served more often than meat. Meats were usually prepared in a stew with peas other legumes or rice and served with sea biscuits which were soaked in the soup or in water to make them edible. Sea biscuits would last at least a year if they were kept dry. > > Both wine and water for drinking were stored in wooden barrels. > **[Food aboard Christopher Columbus' ships](https://www.christopher-columbus.eu/food.htm)** > > A study of food aboard Christopher Columbus' ships It mentions fish being served, but it’s not clear to me if it was caught while sailing. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/75 "2024-07-13T23:16:46Z")
Anyone for sea turtle soup? Rats too. Hungry sailors will find sustenance ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915/76 "2024-07-19T05:22:11Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > It mentions fish being served, but it’s not clear to me if it was caught while sailing It mentioned salt cod. It’s just saying there would have been more stockfish/_bacalao_ than salt pork/beef. Salt cod wouldn’t have needed barrels either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-a-gap-between-north-and-south-america-and-columbus-managed-to-miss-both-how-much-trouble-would-he-have-been-in/1003915.md?page=3)