# If there was no money... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898 "2014-04-24T21:59:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/21 "2014-04-26T03:36:41Z")
I don’t need money, as long as I have my credit cards. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/22 "2014-04-26T07:57:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t need money, as long as I have my credit cards. I don’t care too much for money, money can’t buy me love. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/23 "2014-04-26T09:33:38Z")
But imagine if there was no money. It’s easy if you try. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/24 "2014-04-26T09:53:41Z")
How would we keep score? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/25 "2014-04-26T16:01:43Z")
Social capital has been suggested as a substitute for money in a psot-scarcity society. If the value of goods and commodities become vanishingly cheap in such a society, the measure of your standing and reputation will become more important than the value of the products you own or can consume. See > **[Post-scarcity economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity)** > > Post-scarcity is a theoretical economic situation in which most goods can be produced in great abundance with minimal human labor needed, so that they become available to all very cheaply or even freely. > Post-scarcity does not mean that scarcity has been eliminated for all goods and services but that all people can easily have their basic survival needs met along with some significant proportion of their desires for goods and services. Writers on the topic often emphasize that some commoditie... > **[Social capital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital)** > > Social capital is "the networks of relationships among people who live and work in a particular society, enabling that society to function effectively". It involves the effective functioning of social groups through interpersonal relationships, a shared sense of identity, a shared understanding, shared norms, shared values, trust, cooperation, and reciprocity. Social capital is a measure of the value of resources, both tangible (e.g., public spaces, private property) and intangible (e.g., acto There have been a number of suggestions about how to measure this social capital; Cory Doctorow’s Whuffie system relies on universal internet connections and reputation indices > **[Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie)** > > Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom is a 2003 science fiction book, the first novel by Canadian author and digital-rights activist Cory Doctorow. Concurrent with its publication by Tor Books, Doctorow released the entire text of the novel under a Creative Commons noncommercial license on his website, allowing the whole text of the book to be freely read and distributed without needing any further permission from him or his publisher. > The novel was nominated for the Nebula Award for Best Novel in 2... To be honest whuffie worries me somewhat, since a popular and likeable sociopath might corner the market in rep points, while a modest and retiring hermit would become relatively impoverished. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/26 "2014-04-26T16:07:30Z")
Money is the grease that allows modern society to function, and it won’t function without it despite whatever dizzy dreams some people have of that. If all the currency and money was removed by some form of magic other mediums of exchange would spring up immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/27 "2014-04-26T16:15:59Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Primates trade sex for food, so good luck with that. Human primates do too, but it’s considered acceptable to welsh on the deal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/28 "2014-04-26T17:22:01Z")
> [@Mr1992](#): > > Consider if there was no such thing as money and wealth was based solely on knowledge and contribution. I feel the world would be a better place. Financial matters would not hinder a person pursuing most things they would have not been able to do because of lack of money. I’m intrigued. Let’s say I’m a mathematician, and love doing proofs. In your society, how do I get food for dinner tonight? ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/29 "2014-04-26T18:51:49Z")
> [@Mr1992](#): > > Consider if there was no such thing as money and wealth was based solely on knowledge and contribution. > > TJ Isn’t money & wealth based on knowledge and contribution here and now in the real world ? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/30 "2014-04-26T20:46:56Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > To be honest whuffie worries me somewhat, since a popular and likeable sociopath might corner the market in rep points, while a modest and retiring hermit would become relatively impoverished. So not that different from money, then 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/31 "2014-04-26T20:53:37Z")
Oh Lord. Do I really need to explain what Money is again? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/32 "2014-04-26T21:03:36Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Oh Lord. Do I really need to explain what Money is again? Who needs it? If I want to buy a car from you, why can’t I just give you 5,000 chickens? Money is evil and just makes things complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/33 "2014-04-26T21:23:47Z")
The Bank of England (i.e. the UK’s central bank) published a couple of nice articles recently explaining what money is, how it is created, and how the amount of money in the economy is really controlled. I say “really” because they cover a couple of misconceptions, such as the idea that they enforce some ratio between broad money and central bank reserves, the so-called “money multiplier” approach. [Money in the modern economy: an introduction](http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneyintro.pdf) (PDF) [Money creation in the modern economy](http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneycreation.pdf) (PDF) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/34 "2014-04-27T00:40:23Z")
Money is a Concept. An Idea. It is nothing more than a means of exchanging widgets for chickens for beans for hours of labor. No individual thing is ‘money’, rather things are assigned relative (and often fluid) values that are represented by numbers we call “money” which allow us to exchange these things in a reasonable and largely consistent manner. “Money” doesn’t create the idea of “profit”. If our world revolved around barter, most people would still grok the idea of being able to form their barter trades to end up with more of what they want than the other guy. Without money, people would still barter drugs or sex for the goods they need. After all, they aren’t doing this for some fictional idea of ‘profit’, they’re doing it to survive, or to have more than they would have if they were not doing that. As I say, if the concept of Money did not exist, we would be forced to invent it before we could have anything even remotely resembling a modern society and economy. And finally, an old quote of mine: “If you want to know what God thinks of Money, just look at who he gives it to.” ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/35 "2014-04-27T16:08:33Z")
[QUOTE=eburacum45] To be honest whuffie worries me somewhat, since a popular and likeable sociopath might corner the market in rep points, while a modest and retiring hermit would become relatively impoverished. [/quote] > [@Ximenean](#): > > So not that different from money, then 🙂 Quite. 🙂 Here’s a not entirely serious analysis of a reputation-based merit system that shows that reputation would follow similar rules of distribution to a money-based economy. [The Reputation 1%](http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2014/03/the_reputation_1.html) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/36 "2014-04-27T16:14:00Z")
> [@Mr1992](#): > > Consider if there was no such thing as money and wealth was based solely on knowledge and contribution. For the most part, it is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898/37 "2014-04-27T16:59:23Z")
I understand how reputation is currently distributed. But how could it be used as an exchange medium? If Paris Hilton bought my car would she somehow transfer part of her fame to me? Could I then use that fame to buy a big screen TV from somebody else and somehow make them famous? Could a celebrity spend their way into anonymity? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-was-no-money/686898.md?page=1)