# If there were absolutely zero health risks to being overweight, would we still value being thin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706 "2010-01-20T15:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/1 "2010-01-20T15:56:55Z")
In the fat acceptance thread, there’s talk of weight and health and the impact on society, among other things. And in the “fatosphere” (blogs devoted to fat acceptance, or the idea of loving people’s bodies as they are without pressuring them to lose weight), people tout the idea that fat doesn’t mean unhealthy, that you can have health at any size (HAES). A lot of people on these blogs talk about how “I’m worried about your health” is a red herring, that people don’t really care about fat people’s health, but rather how they look. But they say that introducing health transforms an aesthetic issue into more of a moral one. I’m not sure how true that is or isn’t. But leaving that aside, what if it were true–that you could weigh, say, 200 or 300 lbs or whatever, and you’d have no risks to health, would we still want to be skinny? It would still look good to be thin and would make getting around easily. Speaking personally I know I’d still want to be thin because…well, I’m shallow and all that. But could we really look down on someone for not being thin if there were no risk? I suppose you could argue that it’s still sort of gluttonous to eat a lot, but a lot of thin people eat tons and we don’t judge them…do we? Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/2 "2010-01-20T16:24:23Z")
Just my opinion: Attractiveness is fashion - in the midle ages it was attractive to be larger (it was a sign of wealth, whereas only poor peasants were thin). These days weight is more associated with poorer people who eat cheap unhealthy food, while the rich can afford personal trainers and the like. So it’s kinda reversed. I imagine it’s also related to scarcity, to an extent. As our population gets larger, the thin are fewer. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/3 "2010-01-20T16:24:54Z")
If there were no health risks, then it wouldn’t be ‘over’ weight by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/4 "2010-01-20T16:29:02Z")
Well, assume it’s a BMI that’s considered overweight. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/5 "2010-01-20T16:32:39Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, assume it’s a BMI that’s considered overweight. I think generally we’d prefer something that cleaves toward the optimal health ratio, whatever that is. Our current obsession with unhealthy thinness is actually a conspiracy between Hollywood Producers and the Fashion Industry, but for different reasons. The Fashion Industry does it so that the people are human clothes hangers, and the film industry does it out of a combination of how it will display on film and mysogyny. But generally, a healthy weight, is what is considered ideal. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/6 "2010-01-20T16:34:08Z")
Since there are societies (current and historic) where being fat is not looked down upon, I’d say it’s reasonable to suggest that how we perceive obesity is mostly cultural. Since valuing health is also cultural, it’s common for us to look upon fatties as people with poor judgment and/or poor self-control. The assumption is that if they had better judgment or better self-control they would not be fat. There are practical annoyances that amplify this reaction. Folks who are wheelchair-bound because their obesity has rendered them unable to walk properly go to the head of the airline queue, or bulge over into the already-cramped adjacent seat… But yeah; for the most part it’s a cultural phenomenon. If we stopped regarding health so highly, some of the reason for disregarding the obese would diminish. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/7 "2010-01-20T16:37:09Z")
I am a little confused. You **can** have a high BMI and still be healthy, just as you can have a low BMI and be unhealthy. A high BMI is _linked to_ and _associated with_ certain health issues, but there is NOT a direct correlation with a high BMI and poor health; there just isn’t. And yet, it’s still brought up all the time. I mean, that is the whole point the FA people are making,; you can be fat and still be healthy, many of the FA people _are_ fat and healthy, but there is still a strong stigma that being fat is “bad”. People say it is about health, but it obviously isn’t, because there isn’t a direct causal link between fat and unhealthiness. It is the fat that is demonized, not the health issues. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/8 "2010-01-20T16:56:28Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Since there are societies (current and historic) where being fat is not looked down upon, I’d say it’s reasonable to suggest that how we perceive obesity is mostly cultural. I don’t disagree that it’s mainly culture-driven (I mean it’s not like fat people give off different smells which elicit different reactions than thin people) but I’d not be so quick to conflate “fat” and “obese” - I don’t think that there is a society anywhere where 300 pound people who need motorized scooters to get around wall-mart would be considered social alphas. moderately portly because you suffer an embarrassment of caloric riches - ok, your culture may or may not value this depending. xxxxxxl wide ass because you’re extremely lazy and stuff yourself full of food - you’re not big and beautiful, my dear, you’re just a slob. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/9 "2010-01-20T17:21:24Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I am a little confused. So what are you confused about? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/10 "2010-01-20T17:26:33Z")
One benefit of being thin is ease of movement. Of course, it depends up on the level of overweight we’re talking about, but I would be concerned enough about losing some mobility to at least try to stay thin, even if there were no other health concerns. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/11 "2010-01-20T18:07:10Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > So what are you confused about? I don’t see how you can treat this premise as a “what if”. People are already looked down on for being fat, even though it doesn’t negatively effect their health. It’s a fact. I mean, I guess we don’t have ZERO health risks, but the actual health risks are extremely exaggerated, so it isn’t as far off as people might want to think. “Why do we value being thin, when it isn’t directly linked to health?” is an interesting debate topic, but that isn’t what this debate is. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/12 "2010-01-20T18:15:47Z")
Even if it’s possible to be fat and healthy, that doesn’t necessarily mean that those same people wouldn’t be even healthier at a lower weight. And there is certainly an extreme of weight beyond which it is not possible to be healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/13 "2010-01-20T18:21:08Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I don’t see how you can treat this premise as a “what if”. People are already looked down on for being fat, even though it doesn’t negatively effect their health. It’s a fact. I mean, I guess we don’t have ZERO health risks, but the actual health risks are extremely exaggerated, so it isn’t as far off as people might want to think. > > “Why do we value being thin, when it isn’t directly linked to health?” is an interesting debate topic, but that isn’t what this debate is. You probably ought to start explaining how the link between obesity and high blood pressure/diabetes/heart disease isn’t a correlation between obesity and health problems. Yes, you CAN be fat and healthy. You CAN be thin and sick. That certainly doesn’t mean “being fat doesn’t negatively affect their health.” ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/14 "2010-01-20T18:35:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if it’s possible to be fat and healthy, that doesn’t necessarily mean that those same people wouldn’t be even healthier at a lower weight. It also doesn’t mean they _would_ be healthier. Besides, what do you even mean by “healthier”? If someone has low blood pressure, no arterial plaque, isn’t diabetic, feels great and gets around well, then they are healthy, no matter their BMI. And there are lots and lots of fat people like this, and they still get a lot of abuse and discrimination hurled at them, because fat hatred isn’t based on heath. You’re also presupposing that this person could lose weight and do it healthily, which is demonstrably untrue in many many cases. For many people, their “correct” weight, the weight at which they are “healthiest” is one with a BMI that is considered “unhealthy” even though the BMI per se isn’t an actual indicator if health. There are some people who are naturally skinny. Very very skinny. My brother is one, and so was I for most of my life (now that I’m older I’m less scary-skinny, and more average size). They eat normal amounts of food, or sometimes far too much food. They aren’t especially active. They just don’t put on a lot of weight. We all know these people exist, we know they aren’t secretly anorexics, we understand that for some people being quite thin is just the way they are. But never if you are fat. No. Then you are a lazy slob. > [@](#): > > And there is certainly an extreme of weight beyond which it is not possible to be healthy. This is true, but I think it’s a whole other subject, honestly. Basically, its a privacy issue to me. There are some risky behaviors we laud as a society, some we tolerate, and some we demonize. But not all fat people are at this extreme weight, and in fact social pressure to lose weight begins well before that point. So I see it as a separate subject. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/15 "2010-01-20T18:40:27Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > You probably ought to start explaining how the link between obesity and high blood pressure/diabetes/heart disease isn’t a correlation between obesity and health problems. > > Yes, you CAN be fat and healthy. You CAN be thin and sick. That certainly doesn’t mean “being fat doesn’t negatively affect their health.” I said it isn’t a **direct** correlation. Being fat does not absolutely mean you WILL have these health problems. It means you have a higher risk for having them. There are lots of other risk factors associated with heart problems and diabetes, and none of them are demonized like being fat is. And if you CAN be fat and healthy, then it absolutely means “being fat doesn’t negatively affect their health.” What else would it mean? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/16 "2010-01-20T18:44:28Z")
Yeah. I don’t know if few people were ever thin and in good shape, but it’s well worth it. If being fat didn’t mean any health concerns, I’d still despise looking like hell, being lazy (at least about myself), and not feeling strong. ---
**Author:** ![Snow\_Pea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Snow\_Pea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snow_Pea)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/17 "2010-01-20T18:45:15Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > In the fat acceptance thread Link, please? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/18 "2010-01-20T18:46:23Z")
> [@Snow\_Pea](#): > > Link, please? Whoops. Sorry. [Here you go.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=548375) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/19 "2010-01-20T19:05:49Z")
Since there are many thin people who are risking their health to fit into a body type that society/culture pressures them to have, I’d have to say “no” to the OP. If being quite obese became the fashion, people would do it without regard for their health. As a society we value what is in fashion, with little regard to its intrinsic value. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706/20 "2010-01-20T19:14:20Z")
Hell, there’s _plenty_ of evidence that being tanned is _unhealthy_, but plenty of people still lay out money for tanning beds, and plenty of people still consider it attractive. So I’d have to say that even if no negative _health_ factors were associated with obesity, it’d still be a no-go from a fashion POV. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-there-were-absolutely-zero-health-risks-to-being-overweight-would-we-still-value-being-thin/525706.md?page=2)