# If this were true, then should I know this secret. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 18, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-this-were-true-then-should-i-know-this-secret/245832 "2004-05-18T20:03:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-this-were-true-then-should-i-know-this-secret/245832/1 "2004-05-18T20:03:51Z")
Is there a basic, generally accepted way to determine how old a phrase or word is? I was surprised to find the word, suburb used in Shakespeare: …Am I yourself But, as it were, in sort or limitation, To keep with you at meals, comfort your bed, And talk to you sometimes? Dwell I but in the **suburbs** Of your good pleasure? Julius Caesar Act II scene i I didn’t fall out of my seat, but I was a little surprised. I tried to find more information regarding the use of the word but I don’t have many good resources. So, what is the best ( easiest) way to find out that kind of information? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-this-were-true-then-should-i-know-this-secret/245832/2 "2004-05-18T20:22:59Z")
An etymological dictionary… ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-this-were-true-then-should-i-know-this-secret/245832/3 "2004-05-18T20:25:48Z")
The OED is a good source for word history. **Suburb** has a listing that runs about 1-1/3 columns, with the first example of usage circa 1380, and a citation from Chaucer from 1386. ---
**Author:** ![carterba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@carterba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carterba)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-this-were-true-then-should-i-know-this-secret/245832/4 "2004-05-18T20:28:33Z")
Here’s an online etymology dictionary: > **[Online Etymology Dictionary | Origin, history and meaning of English words](https://www.etymonline.com/)** > > The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible... Here’s what it says for “suburb”: > [@](#): > > suburb - early 14c., “residential area outside a town or city,” from [O.Fr](http://O.Fr). suburbe, from L. suburbium “an outlying part of a city,” from sub “below, near” + urbs (gen. urbis) “city.” Close to crowds but just beyond the reach of municipal jurisdiction, suburbs in 17c., especially those of London, had a sense of “inferior, debased, and licentious habits or life” (cf. suburban sinner, slang for “loose woman, prostitute”). By 1817, the tinge had shifted to “inferior manners and narrow views.” Suburban is first recorded early 17c.; suburbanite formed 1890; suburbia in 1896, probably influenced by utopia. Compare also Fr. equivalent faubourg. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-this-were-true-then-should-i-know-this-secret/245832/5 "2004-05-18T21:39:41Z")
> [@carterba](#): > > Here’s an online etymology dictionary: > [http://www.etymonline.com/](http://www.etymonline.com/) > > Here’s what it says for “suburb”: Thanks, that’s what I’m looking for.