# If Tolkien's Orcs were Neanderthals, what were Elves & Dwarves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 3, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844 "2010-04-03T18:42:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/1 "2010-04-03T18:42:38Z")
In a thread I can’t be arsed to look up, much less link to, someone opines that LOTR is a mythical retelling of a conflict between Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals. Let’s run with that idea. What are the Eldar and Khazad in this scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/2 "2010-04-03T19:11:30Z")
I reject the premise. The Druedain (Ghan-Buri-Ghan’s people) might be Neanderthals, and they’re ugly by our standards, but learned folks in the books reject the notion that they’re at all related to Orcs. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/3 "2010-04-03T19:42:43Z")
I think we all know who the [hobbits](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis) are… It doesn’t really make any sense, since they didn’t live anywhere near each other, but whatever, does it have to make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/4 "2010-04-03T19:47:17Z")
Dwarves = Midgets Elves = Gays Which only proves that JRRT was gay, since the Elves were basically perfect in every way. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/5 "2010-04-03T19:56:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Dwarves = Midgets > Elves = Gays > > Which only proves that JRRT was gay, since the Elves were basically perfect in every way. Oh, please. You don’t even have to go to the movies to find imperfect Elves. May I introduce you to Eol, Turgon, Maeglin, Maedhros, and Feanor? ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/6 "2010-04-03T20:11:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Oh, please. You don’t even have to go to the movies to find imperfect Elves. May I introduce you to Eol, Turgon, Maeglin, Maedhros, and Feanor? Besides, they weren’t perfect… they were just _fabulous_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/7 "2010-04-03T20:23:54Z")
Well, the dwarves would obviously be _H. floresiensis_. Elves? They’re Bonobos. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/8 "2010-04-03T20:35:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, the dwarves would obviously be _H. floresiensis_. > > Elves? They’re Bonobos. Bonobos have way too much sex to fit in Tolkien’s world. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/9 "2010-04-03T21:37:31Z")
Fingolfin was a chick magnet. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/10 "2010-04-03T21:46:19Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Fingolfin was a chick magnet. That’s Turin. And every single woman in his life would have been better off if Hopafoot had accidentally stumbled and stabbed him to death one day when he was, like, 6. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/11 "2010-04-03T21:53:21Z")
Sure, Turin was the one they wrote all that stuff about. But, let me tell ya, what I heard about ol’ Fingy at the tavern … (finger to nose) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/12 "2010-04-04T00:51:50Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Dwarves = Midgets > Elves = Gays > > Which only proves that JRRT was gay, since the Elves were basically perfect in every way. It was a joke, folks. I think you got whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/13 "2010-04-04T02:10:02Z")
I never thought Orcs were Neanderthals. If anyone in LoTR deserves comparison to them, it’s the _Pukel Men_. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/14 "2010-04-05T09:32:50Z")
The one ring was actually a cock ring. “One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.” Need I say more? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/15 "2010-04-05T10:54:59Z")
Aren’t the Elves Catholics, with Elrond being the Pope? Of course that means that hobbits are probably Welsh. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/16 "2010-04-05T16:54:17Z")
Well, they do drinks a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-tolkiens-orcs-were-neanderthals-what-were-elves-dwarves/534844/17 "2010-04-10T12:06:08Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Besides, they weren’t perfect… they were just _fabulous_. I agree. I am fabulous.