# If Trump is complicit in Russian hacking **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 16, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866 "2016-12-16T16:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/21 "2016-12-16T17:14:21Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Wouldn’t that be the equivalent of what happened in Watergate? Nixon was wiretapping the DNC. As you will soon see, the apologists would excuse Trump no matter what he did. If the Watergate break in were to happen today, the Republicans would have rallied around Nixon, and made every excuse under the sun for him. It is now fully “Party before Country” ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/22 "2016-12-16T17:14:43Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Average people on the street asking to see Trump’s returns are not equivalent to a leading presidential candidate asking a foreign power who has already proven to have the capability to hack our systems to go after specific info. That is a false equivalence. > > If Bill Gates, for example, were to ask Anonymous to hack Facebook, that would be a more similar scenario, and yes he would be complicit. That’s an interesting theory. Do you think that the law (“comlicit” implies some kind of legal distinction, right?) does or should distinguish between speech of someone who is popular/known and speech of some average shmoe? AFAIU, the only distinction in law that takes that into account is in the libel/defamation laws, and that does not distinguish by who speaks but by who is being spoken about. But maybe my understanding is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/23 "2016-12-16T17:15:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I didn’t do any “equivalence”. I asked a question. Do you think these people would be “complicit” in the crime? I really don’t see how the specific identity of the person in question matters for the answer. If you don’t see how the identity of the person matters, then you are trying really hard to not see it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/24 "2016-12-16T17:19:16Z")
This place gets farther and farther off the rails every day since the election. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/25 "2016-12-16T17:19:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You know who actually knew and did nothing? President Obama. Why doesn’t the left spend any time talking about that? Had he done anything about it, you would have been here ranting and raving about partisanship and tampering with the election and democracy, refusing to admit that it happened at all, and generally crying about the evil Democrats being SO MEAN and EVIL. But please, continue your hilarious attempt to blame Obama/Hillary/Democrats/ivory tower libruls/urban elitists for everything. It makes me smile. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/26 "2016-12-16T17:21:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This place gets farther and farther off the rails every day since the election. ^ Party before country. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/27 "2016-12-16T17:23:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This place gets farther and farther off the rails every day since the election. Yeah, what an unusual opinion that having the Russians interfere with US elections is bad, and having one of the candidates applaud it is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/28 "2016-12-16T17:26:44Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > As you will soon see, the apologists would excuse Trump no matter what he did. If the Watergate break in were to happen today, the Republicans would have rallied around Nixon, and made every excuse under the sun for him. > > It is now fully “Party before Country” Exactly my point. It looks like at the end of the Watergate scandal, Nixon had about a 24% approval rating. Would Trump’s popularity drop that low if the exact same news were released today? I kinda doubt it. 40% of the American public sees the DNC as the enemy and any hacking would be viewed as fair game. I bet Trump’s popularity would drop by less than 5%. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/29 "2016-12-16T17:35:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You know who actually knew and did nothing? President Obama. Why doesn’t the left spend any time talking about that? It appears you’ve missed much of what’s really going on here. Obama knew. He (his staff) notified the DNC, etc. that hacking was about. The US watched them hack, knowing full well what they were doing. Had the US done anything more than that then, the resources the resources the US was using, domestic and foreign, would have been compromised. This is the same reason the US will never “prove” to Putin what or how we knew. As I’ve pointed out in another thread, Obama is powerless to really do anything about it. Trump is convinced that it never happened and the issue will die after douche-nozzle takes office. One leader is powerless, the other too ignorant to see. But ignorance will be plentiful over the next 4 years. The real loser is those of us who live in this country. With an incoming administration too blind to what’s going on, seeking to use Russia as another economic trade opportunity, we’re screwed. Proving once again that Trump is too stupid to lead. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/30 "2016-12-16T17:37:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This place gets farther and farther off the rails every day since the election. I’m giving you 2 years, 2 max. In 2 years you will be here saying Trump is the dumbest creature ever to walk through the doors to the White house. And that includes Forrest Gump. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/31 "2016-12-16T17:53:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No fucking way did Trump know. Putin would trust that shit-for-brains motormouth with a secret plot? Would you? I think that pretty much settles the question of his complicity. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This place gets farther and farther off the rails every day since the election. It’s not just here. Politics in America is fully covered on all sides by fake news CT hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/32 "2016-12-16T17:57:51Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That’s an interesting theory. Do you think that the law (“comlicit” implies some kind of legal distinction, right?) does or should distinguish between speech of someone who is popular/known and speech of some average shmoe? > > AFAIU, the only distinction in law that takes that into account is in the libel/defamation laws, and that does not distinguish by who speaks but by who is being spoken about. But maybe my understanding is wrong. Please. Nice try to Bricker the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/33 "2016-12-16T18:00:49Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Please. > Nice try to Bricker the conversation. When “complicit” is used, does that imply some law was violated, or is it just a “shake your finger at him” kind of thing? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/34 "2016-12-16T18:04:45Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > When “complicit” is used, does that imply some law was violated, or is it just a “shake your finger at him” kind of thing? Trump’s complacency is due to ignorance and a refusal to learn. That’s part of the narcissist, pathological liar mentality he has. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/35 "2016-12-16T18:06:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > He warned about it. And now that a more clear intelligence view of it is available, he’s talking about it. He’s asked intelligence agencies to have their assessment on his desk before he leaves office. > > What should he have done, emerged from the shadows and garroted a Russian neckbeard at his computer? I’d pay to see that. > [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Is there proof Obama knew something he wasn’t telling us? That would also be a problem, yes. But my question is about Trump’s involvement. Shouldn’t we be more concerned with the perpetrator and beneficiary of a crime, rather than Obama’s transparency on the subject? Yes. According to the New York Times. And fixating on Trump’s “involvement” is purely partisan. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I would add, and overtly encouraged further hacking. To help the FBI find what Clinton destroyed. Plus it was a joke. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This place gets farther and farther off the rails every day since the election. Truth. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Had he done anything about it, you would have been here ranting and raving about partisanship and tampering with the election and democracy, refusing to admit that it happened at all, and generally crying about the evil Democrats being SO MEAN and EVIL. > > But please, continue your hilarious attempt to blame Obama/Hillary/Democrats/ivory tower libruls/urban elitists for everything. It makes me smile. I’m glad I can brighten your day even if you are wrong with your assessment. In what world would I consider cyber security tampering? Do I considered the 10+ carrier groups that provide defense partisanship or tampering? No. then why would I consider network security some sort of interference? Your assumptions are illogical. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > It appears you’ve missed much of what’s really going on here. Obama knew. He (his staff) notified the DNC, etc. that hacking was about. The US watched them hack, knowing full well what they were doing. Had the US done anything more than that then, the resources the resources the US was using, domestic and foreign, would have been compromised. This is the same reason the US will never “prove” to Putin what or how we knew. > As I’ve pointed out in another thread, Obama is powerless to really do anything about it. Trump is convinced that it never happened and the issue will die after douche-nozzle takes office. One leader is powerless, the other too ignorant to see. But ignorance will be plentiful over the next 4 years. > > The real loser is those of us who live in this country. With an incoming administration too blind to what’s going on, seeking to use Russia as another economic trade opportunity, we’re screwed. Proving once again that Trump is too stupid to lead. Well, if the DNC had a tiny shred of common sense Hilary would’ve crushed The Donald. Falling for phishing scams my grandmother knows to avoid? That’s bad. We don’t want those people with the launch codes. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/36 "2016-12-16T18:06:24Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’m giving you 2 years, 2 max. In 2 years you will be here saying Trump is the dumbest creature ever to walk through the doors to the White house. And that includes Forrest Gump. I really hope I can remember you and this post in two years. It’ll be interesting to see how my opinion of Trump has changed by the end of 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/37 "2016-12-16T18:56:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’d pay to see that. You’d pay to see someone killed? Isn’t that illegal? Like buying a snuff film? I thought you guys were the law and order party? Extralegal assassinations are ok though? > [@octopus](#): > > Well, if the DNC had a tiny shred of common sense Hilary would’ve crushed The Donald. Falling for phishing scams my grandmother knows to avoid? That’s bad. We don’t want those people with the launch codes. So give the codes to the guy that’s freaking out on twitter at 3 am over Saturday Night Live? Yeah good choice… ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/38 "2016-12-16T19:34:47Z")
FBI backs up CIA now: > **[FBI in agreement with CIA that Russia aimed to help Trump win White House](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-blames-putins-personal-grudge-against-her-for-election-interference/2016/12/16/12f36250-c3be-11e6-8422-eac61c0ef74d_story.html)** > > Obama defended his response to cyber-intrusions as Clinton accused Putin of having a personal grudge against her. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/39 "2016-12-16T19:36:59Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > FBI backs up CIA now: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-backs-cia-view-that-russia-intervened-to-help-trump-win-election/2016/12/16/05b42c0e-c3bf-11e6-9a51-cd56ea1c2bb7\_story.html?postshare=7551481916347485&tid=ss\_tw](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-backs-cia-view-that-russia-intervened-to-help-trump-win-election/2016/12/16/05b42c0e-c3bf-11e6-9a51-cd56ea1c2bb7_story.html?postshare=7551481916347485&tid=ss_tw) according to … an unnamed source ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866/40 "2016-12-16T19:44:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > according to … an unnamed source There’s no mention of an unnamed source in that article. Sorry. I forgot you don’t read links. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-trump-is-complicit-in-russian-hacking/774866.md?page=3)