# If US Tax brackets changed **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 12, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458 "2010-09-12T01:00:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/21 "2010-09-13T14:57:56Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > > [@amarone](#): > > > > That’s not really what FAFSA means. The government does not **expect** you to dole out $300k, just that if you choose to do so it is not going to subsidize you. > > I understand that. I just think the whole FAFSA system is skewed to, once again, reward those who live beyond their means at the expense of those who live within their means and save. We’re not eligible for any subsidies because we made the right choices. We worked to get degrees so we could get good jobs, we saved towards retirement, we bought used cars, we bought a much smaller house than we were approved for…all these things that experts tell us to do. And now we’re being penalized for that because we’re too well off to qualify for any subsidies. > > Agood percentage of our income is already stripped to subdize OTHER kids’ education (among other things) while we struggle to pay the tuition all on our own. And now they want to tax us even more? Yippee! I guess I’ll drive my 7 year old minivan another 5 years because I’m so freaking rich. > > Forget the subsidy. I’d be happy with a tax credit for the fact that I’m doling out 25% of our take home pay to educate my two kids this year. You know, so that they can become productive citizens and pay their fair share of taxes. > > Argh! I hear you. We made those same choices (except private schooling) and get nothing from FAFSA. However, we do get tuition subsidized by the lottery players of Georgia (voluntary taxation of poor people to pay for the middle class to send their kids to college). And I can beat you on one thing - my car is 10 years old! (My wife’s is 6). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/22 "2010-09-13T14:58:47Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Forget the subsidy. I’d be happy with a tax credit for the fact that I’m doling out 25% of our take home pay to educate my two kids this year. You know, so that they can become productive citizens and pay their fair share of taxes. > > Argh! Pretty sure tuition, at least, is deductible. Sounds like you need a better accountant. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/23 "2010-09-13T15:02:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@PunditLisa](#): > > > > Forget the subsidy. I’d be happy with a tax credit for the fact that I’m doling out 25% of our take home pay to educate my two kids this year. You know, so that they can become productive citizens and pay their fair share of taxes. > > > > Argh! > > Pretty sure tuition, at least, is deductible. For college, maybe, but not for K-12 which is what I think she is referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/24 "2010-09-13T15:02:30Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Over the long haul, all changing tax brackets does is raise/lower the number of people at certain wages so that the actual take-home amount is the same for anyone doing the same job before and after. i’m not aware of any respected economist who will claim that tax bracket shifts have more than diddly squat of an effect on wage rates. p.s., you do understand that taxation is marginal, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/25 "2010-09-13T16:21:33Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > i’m not aware of any respected economist who will claim that tax bracket shifts have more than diddly squat of an effect on wage rates. > > p.s., you do understand that taxation is marginal, right? Wages will change, take home won’t. There’s a certain minimum that a person needs to survive. If you raise taxes on him, he’ll die unless he asks for a raise. As such, he’ll ask for a raise (or for government handouts). If, instead, you lower taxes on him, then all a business has to do is find the guy who is willing to work at a survival rate, and the market adjusts downward. Now, since everyone wants to be making more money than the guy that they believe is worth less than himself, everyone wants a take-home greater than all of those people, proportionate to how many times greater their job is worth. That proportion hasn’t changed. Given time for the market to adjust, take-home values will end up the same. Prices might change, wage might change, government subsidies might change, but the basic necessities of the situation will necessitate that everyone bend to move money in such a way that it gets where it needs to be to allow the take-home to stay as it was. Some of that take-home might be directly supported by the government, rather than paid as wage, but it will come. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/26 "2010-09-13T17:37:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pretty sure tuition, at least, is deductible. Sounds like you need a better accountant. Sounds like you need to educate yourself: “If your MAGI is not more than $65,000 ($130,000 if you are married filing jointly), your maximum tuition and fees deduction is $4,000. If your MAGI is larger than $65,000 ($130,000 if you are married filing jointly), but is not more than $80,000 ($160,000 if you are married filing jointly), your maximum deduction is $2,000. No tuition and fees deduction is allowed if your MAGI is larger than $80,000 ($160,000 if you are married filing jointly).” > **[Publication 970 (2024), Tax Benefits for Education | Internal Revenue Service](https://www.irs.gov/publications/p970)** ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/27 "2010-09-15T10:22:29Z")
I’ve never understood why people work hard enough to get money, but then complain when the government doesn’t help them. You intentionally fought to not need the help, and now want it anyways? Why? Sure, if you are really close to line, there might be people on the lower side that are better off than you. But if not, you’re still better off than all these people you’re jealous of. If you want your government subsidy so bad, intentionally limit your wages. What, you can’t live at the lifestyle you’re used to, and thus don’t want to do it? Then don’t complain. To get that lifestyle, you chose to give up the government handout. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/28 "2010-09-15T12:43:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ve never understood why people work hard enough to get money, but then complain when the government doesn’t help them. I don’t want their help as much as I want them to let me keep the money I earn! ---
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/29 "2010-09-15T13:54:47Z")
I looked over the FAFSA form and I don’t see that they ask about assets. The focus seems to be on income. If two families earn the same amount and one family saves while the other lives beyond its means, does FAFSA treat them differently? I don’t see that on the form, but I have only taken a quick look. If the system does penalize families for retaining wealth, that’s not much different than what Medicaid does when a person enters a nursing home–if you’re asset poor (regardless of your lifetime income) they’ll take care of you at relatively little cost, but if you’ve got assets, you need to jump through serious hoops to protect them. BTW, I paid my own way through college by holding down a job and incurring debts I had to repay, and I have no kids of my own. So I’m not wild about paying to subsidize higher education for your kids so they can enter the workforce and compete for my job. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/30 "2010-09-19T20:55:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ve never understood why people work hard enough to get money, but then complain when the government doesn’t help them. You intentionally fought to not need the help, and now want it anyways? Why? I see it from a different perspective. It’s not that people want government help despite not needing it, but that since they’re being taxed to help out all of the losers (I mean sub-prime people here), they’re looking the for the best way to leverage the circumstances. That’s purely rational thought. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458/31 "2010-09-19T21:41:54Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > what I did: Bottom of bracket “A” to middle of “B”, Middle of “B” to top of “C”, Bottom of “D” to middle of “E”, middle of “E” up. It would probably be a very minor stimulus, since lower-income people would a have a bit more money to spend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-us-tax-brackets-changed/553458.md?page=1)