# If USA is a secular country, how come "in God we trust" is written on its money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361 "2012-04-29T22:11:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/81 "2012-05-01T02:43:00Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > The notes in my pocket have a picture of Darwin and a hummingbird on them. What does that have to do with American currency? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/82 "2012-05-01T02:47:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What does that have to do with American currency? I think it’s being used as an illustration of the (valid) point that the use of slogans and symbols should not necessarily be interpreted as an expression of virulent hatred toward anything that is **not** represented by those slogans and symbols. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/83 "2012-05-01T04:59:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I think it’s being used as an illustration of the (valid) point that the use of slogans and symbols should not necessarily be interpreted as an expression of virulent hatred toward anything that is **not** represented by those slogans and symbols. It is when the people supporting those slogans have a long and widespread history of such virulent hatred. The motives behind putting Darwin or a bird on the money are not remotely the same as those for putting religious slogans on it. Comparing the two is just another example of the classic defense of the Right; “both sides do it”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/84 "2012-05-01T05:42:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The motives behind putting Darwin or a bird on the money are not remotely the same as those for putting religious slogans on it. Agreed. But that does not imply that **either** motive necessarily has to be an expression of virulent hatred. Unless, that is, you’re taking the position that **any** official public expression of religious belief is intrinsically and essentially an expression of virulent hatred. If you are, well, you’ve got a nice day for it. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > Comparing the two is just another example of the classic defense of the Right; “both sides do it”. Uh, no. It is not “comparing” or equating two different things to point out that neither of them is necessarily equivalent to a third thing. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/85 "2012-05-01T06:02:47Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > God is a bit of a hobbyist, he likes some variety in his coin collection. He’s particularly excited about the forthcoming [beach volleyball fifty pence coin](http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Images/Products/L/LUK50CFC/LUK50CFC_01_white.ashx) commemorating the 2012 Olympics. Off-topic, but who submitted the art for the one with the high jumper clearing the bar? It looks like it was drawn by a not-particularly-talented twelve-year old. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/86 "2012-05-01T12:13:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Except it’s not the same. The fact is, we vote on which civil rights we have, and we’ve voted for equal rights accorded to all races. We didn’t vote for our currency to be God-free, and we aren’t going to do so anytime soon. We pay lip service to the notion of equal rights for all races. The voter suppression laws and the way we distribute voting machines on election day are all coldly calculated to minimize voting among blacks. The anti-immigrant frenzy on the right is designed to intimidate people that look like they could be Mexican. So we pat ourselves on the back for revering God by putting it on our currency while we have a third world health care system and commit torture. Aren’t we just peachy. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/87 "2012-05-01T14:27:36Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > The USA is a secular country? You’ve got to be kidding. Yes. We’re not Ireland, Israel, the UK, or Saudi Arabia which, to varying degrees are all religious countries. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/88 "2012-05-01T14:31:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Off-topic, but who submitted the art for the one with the high jumper clearing the bar? It looks like it was drawn by a not-particularly-talented twelve-year old. I can’t tell-is that Beavis or Butt-head? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/89 "2012-05-01T14:33:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Actually, I’ve reminded of the habit of southern racists of sticking the Confederate flag on everything. “In God We Trust” is the same kind of crypto-bigotry. We might as well put “We Hate Everyone Who Isn’t Christian” on money, it would be more honest. Considering the fact that Muslims and Jews also believe in “God”, that comment is jaw-droppingly stupid. It’s also extremely insulting to blacks by trivializing the racism they’ve historically faced. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/90 "2012-05-01T14:35:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Off-topic, but who submitted the art for the one with the high jumper clearing the bar? It looks like it was drawn by a not-particularly-talented twelve-year old. I think “twelve-year old” is being quite generous. I think “eight-year old” is more like it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/91 "2012-05-01T14:38:52Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Considering the fact that Muslims and Jews also believe in “God”, that comment is jaw-droppingly stupid. 1. I don’t believe that those who were responsible for sticking that phrase on our currency had Jews and/or Muslims in mind. 2. I’d like to hear from our Jewish and Muslim posters about the appropriateness of putting the word “God” on our currency. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/92 "2012-05-01T14:55:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’d like to hear from our Jewish and Muslim posters about the appropriateness of putting the word “God” on our currency. I don’t think it’s terribly appropriate – and I’m not even one of the Jews who goes a step further by only ever writing G\_d. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/93 "2012-05-01T15:07:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. I don’t believe that those who were responsible for sticking that phrase on our currency had Jews and/or Muslims in mind. It was put on in the 1950s and they certainly had Jews in mind which is why they made the reference non-denominational and why those same people regularly refer to our “Judeochristian” heritage. > [@](#): > > I’d like to hear from our Jewish and Muslim posters about the appropriateness of putting the word “God” on our currency. I personally would rather it wasn’t, but it’s not an issue I feel strongly about. I certainly think it’s preferable to the countries which have explicitly demoniational symbols on their flags(I.E. Sweden). That said, The Star of David has been on the one dollar bill ever since we had paper money and I’ve never objected and I don’t think anyone else does either. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/94 "2012-05-01T15:14:48Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > Because…it’s India? Err…a duck…made of wood? What’s with the dots dude? Tell me a Mod didn’t investigate your footware! ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/95 "2012-05-01T15:18:28Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > It was put on in the 1950s and they certainly had Jews in mind which is why they made the reference non-denominational and why those same people regularly refer to our “Judeochristian” heritage. > > I personally would rather it wasn’t, but it’s not an issue I feel strongly about. > > I certainly think it’s preferable to the countries which have explicitly demoniational symbols on their flags(I.E. Sweden). > > That said, The Star of David has been on the one dollar bill ever since we had paper money and I’ve never objected and I don’t think anyone else does either. The fact that they had to make it generic was to fit the law and not for Muslims and jews, it is quite well documented that those behind McCarthyism were not religiously tolerant. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Unholy\_three.png](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Unholy_three.png) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/96 "2012-05-01T15:19:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > It was put on in the 1950s and they certainly had Jews in mind which is why they made the reference non-denominational and why those same people regularly refer to our “Judeochristian” heritage. Why is it you almost never hear the phrase “Judeo-Christian Heritage” used by Jews? Of course, if you can cite some documentation that the push to put the phrase on our currency had some Jewish or Muslim backers, I’ll reconsider my position. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/97 "2012-05-01T15:41:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why is it you almost never hear the phrase “Judeo-Christian Heritage” used by Jews? Depends which Jews you’re listening to. Jewish neoconservatives, for example, are not at all averse to the phrase. But it has fairly strong conservative associations, because it emphasizes a somewhat exclusive focus on a cultural “heritage” as based on religious texts, specifically the Jewish and Christian scriptures. Most liberals (a category that includes the majority of American Jews) tend to think of the western world’s cultural heritage as more of a mixture of heterogenous influences including pagan, Muslim, and secular traditions, so we don’t use the label “Judeo-Christian” much. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/98 "2012-05-01T15:48:18Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The fact that they had to make it generic was to fit the law and not for Muslims and jews, it is quite well documented that those behind McCarthyism were not religiously tolerant. > > [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Unholy\_three.png](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Unholy_three.png) Joe McCarthy was lots of things, but I don’t think he was anti-Semitic. In fact IIRC he had several Jewish aides. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/99 "2012-05-01T15:55:28Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Joe McCarthy was lots of things, but I don’t think he was anti-Semitic. In fact IIRC he had several Jewish aides. The “ism” makes it about the movement more than the man, look at the Peekskill Riots if you think it was not linked with anti-Semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361/100 "2012-05-01T16:17:35Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Off-topic, but who submitted the art for the one with the high jumper clearing the bar? It looks like it was drawn by a not-particularly-talented twelve-year old. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I think “twelve-year old” is being quite generous. I think “eight-year old” is more like it. **Ibn Warraq** wins the sweepstake, the designer is nine. From [here](http://www.royalmint.com/shop/london_2012_50p_sports_collection_athletics): > [@](#): > > Nine-year-old Florence Jackson, the designer of the Athletics 50p coin, is the first ever child to design a Royal Mint UK coin. She won this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity in 2009 after taking part in a Blue Peter competition. The Coin Design Competition was one of the show’s most popular ever, with Florence’s design beating over 17,000 other entries. So there you go. Good job she didn’t go for a pole-vaulting Jesus, or **Der Trihs** might have blown a gasket. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It is when the people supporting those slogans have a long and widespread history of such virulent hatred. Claiming that the slogan “In God We Trust” is an expression of hatred is absurd. You come across very much like **GEEPERS** when you come out with things like this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-usa-is-a-secular-country-how-come-in-god-we-trust-is-written-on-its-money/620361.md?page=6)