# If Warren Ellis hates superheroes so much... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585 "2006-03-23T14:19:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/21 "2006-03-24T13:38:41Z")
> [@dangergene](#): > > … about Ellis being fascinated with the mythic nature of the superhero, but bored by the humdrummery (is that a word) that has become standard story telling. Or rather, I would say, had become the standard, because I would also argue we’re seeing much better superheroic fare these days than we’ve seen in a long, long time. > > And yes, Desolation Jones was lots of fun. I do like Desolation Jones, a lot, and agree that is an espionage themed comic, not a superhero comic. So much for my OP. I love Planetary (I have some original art from Planetary 2 - Godzilla’s corpse - which is going to terrify my children once its framed) but you have the prime elements of the superhero genre in it: costumes, code names, powers. And despite the camoflage fo being pop culture archeology, it actually is a classic superhero battle to the death with the (Fantastic) Four. Transmet did nothing for me, a statement which regularly gets me stares of horror. But IMHO it was half-baked sci-fi, with Warren’s avatar - Spider Jerusalem - in martyr mode. **Lou** - how interesting that Ellis did give you a genuine thought-out answer. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/22 "2006-03-25T00:34:38Z")
> [@First Amongst Daves](#): > > **Lou** - how interesting that Ellis did give you a genuine thought-out answer. From all accounts, he’s really a kind and charming man, despite his “Old Bastard” persona that he carefully cultivated on the old Warren Ellis Forum. He doesn’t suffer fools, but he surrounded himself with so many yes-man, sycophants, and pretentious asshole snobs on that message board that he may have started believing his own hype, or playing a character he thought the majority expected him to play. When he has appeared in threads on Mark Millar’s Millarworld forum in more recent years, he was a lot more convivial and patient with everyone, and very moved by everyone’s appreciation of his work. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/23 "2006-03-25T00:41:20Z")
Hey, **Lou!** Why no love for Millar’s Authority run? You didn’t like what Millar and Quitely brought to the table or was it DC’s editorial interference? ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/24 "2006-03-25T00:53:22Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Hey, **Lou!** Why no love for Millar’s Authority run? You didn’t like what Millar and Quitely brought to the table or was it DC’s editorial interference? 1. I hate Quitely’s art. I know people love him and he’s a fan favorite, but I find his squooshed face-and-sausage fingered people ugly as sin. I’ll take Rob Liefeld’s work over Quitely’s any day. (Also, I hear Quitely is pretty slow – and many of my favorite artists are infamously slow, such as Art Adams, Adam Hughes, and J. Scott Campbell. But with Quitely, I don’t see what took all the time. Okay, he draws really good backgrounds, I’ll give him that.) 2. I think Millar is a competent writer, but his weakness is that he goes too much for shock value. Never was this more evident than in the Authority run. Supervillain rape (followed by superhero jackhammer rape) just pushed it over the edge for me, and I say this as a Preacher fan. Also, after Ellis took the team out on a high note by essentially having them kill God (or Cthulhu, depending on your interpretation), Millar having them slaughter a bunch of thinly-veiled Marvel analogues seemed like a really weak followup by comparison. Just to show that I’m not totally drinking the Haterade, I did like Millar politicizing the team more, and starting to portray them forcing their way into world affairs. 1. The editorial interference pissed me off (and revealed what a truly conservative company DC really is with Paul Levitz at the helm), as did Tom Peyer’s weak fill-in story and the ridiculous delays between issues late in the series. By the time it finally ended (a mercy killing, IMO), I hadn’t cared for over a year prior. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/25 "2006-03-25T01:06:51Z")
**Lou.** I actually remember you and I discussing the (de)merits of Quitely’s artwork before. I see your point about Millar being over the top in shock value; he epitomizes the violent excesses of super-anti-heroes in the modern age like no one since Moore on the final three issues of Miracleman, Todd McFarlane on Spawn and post Sin City Frank Miller. Even Ellis managed to restrain himself somewhat on Stormwatch and The Authority. And you and I are in complete agreement on DC’s editorial interference. But Quitely’s the bomb, yo. Forget the haterade, you be suckin’ on that _el loco_ juice. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/26 "2006-03-25T04:01:53Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > 1. I hate Quitely’s art. I know people love him and he’s a fan favorite, but I find his squooshed face-and-sausage fingered people ugly as sin. I’ll take Rob Liefeld’s work over Quitely’s any day. _choke, wheeze_ Quitely over _Liefeld_? [Liefeld](http://members.aol.com/ddv106/dark/liefeld_cap.gif) !?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/27 "2006-03-25T04:11:54Z")
\*\*Kythereia. \*\* I’m sure he’s just pulling our legs for the sake of hyperbole. :rolleyes: Goodness knows I think me and **Big Bad Voodoo Lou** would get along swell if we ever met outside these boards, but when you show me something like that… ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/28 "2006-03-25T04:40:22Z")
I’m not looking to stir up trouble, but I stand by it. You’d be surprised by the artists I like and the ones I don’t. I named Liefeld since he’s such a whipping boy, but when I was 13 and 14, when X-Force #1 was new and Rob Liefeld was on top of the world, I admit I was a big fan (along with Todd McFarlane, who I also hate now but for different reasons, and Jim Lee, who I still love). As for Quitely, hey, comics would be boring if everyone drew the same. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585/29 "2006-03-25T12:24:39Z")
Never thought of “God” as being “Cthulhu”. Makes a lot of sense, like that. > [@](#): > > Millar having them slaughter a bunch of thinly-veiled Marvel analogues seemed like a really weak followup by comparison. Whereas I thought that was brilliantly inspired, at the time. Oh well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-warren-ellis-hates-superheroes-so-much/349585.md?page=1)