# IF we allow gay marriages..(a different take. (I think)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596 "2004-07-05T04:30:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/81 "2004-07-06T23:59:24Z")
> [@](#): > > dis·ease Audio pronunciation of “disease” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-zz) > n. > > 1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms. > 2. A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful. > 3. Obsolete. Lack of ease; trouble. > [@](#): > > ill·ness Audio pronunciation of “illness” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lns) > n. > > 1. > 1. Poor health resulting from disease of body or mind; sickness. > 2. A disease. > > 2. Obsolete. Evil; wickedness. Maybe he’s going by the obsolete “Evil; wickedness” definition? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/82 "2004-07-07T00:22:04Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > . . . One thing that still gets me though about homosexuallity is the fact that we’re seemingly treating it like people who are gay are born into a race itself like Asian, Indian ect…Shouldn’t we instead be treating this as if it were a sickness like cancer or Autism ect…? And don’t WE as a society have a moral obligation to try and find a cure for it? . . . Here’s where you expose your prejudice, gay friends or no gay friends: why do you equate “being born that way” with a congenital disease, instead of comparing it to being born left handed, or blue eyed? Do those kinds of differences between people present us with a moral obligation to find a cure? You’re working from the position that homosexuality is inherently _bad_, which is called prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/83 "2004-07-07T00:30:05Z")
I’d only skimmed this overlong thread before my above post. Having gone back through and reread it thoroughly, it’s pretty clear to me that SHAKES is nothing more than a pinheaded bigot who should have posted this in the Pit rather than GD, because he has no intention of making any effort to understand another point of view. I think it’s time to explain to him the scientifically proven fact that many men who express homophobic opinions are, in fact, closet homosexuals who are projecting their self-loathing outward; they envy the gay people who live free and open lives and so they hate them. Hope you find your way through this, SHAKES. Gotta picture? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/84 "2004-07-07T00:48:26Z")
Anyway, back to the OP. Sex is a very, very complex thing, even for “normal” people. There’s the physical aspect, the psychological aspect, and a whole mess of power politics because society traditionally has been male-dominated. (On the surface, at least. 😃 ) I totally understand where Shakes is coming from, because I have a paralzying fear of men due to a very traumatic thing that happened to me when I was in high school: a neighbor of mine suddenly asked me to take my clothes off while he was over at my house playing video games. I refused and ended up locking myself in my room, trembling in terror until he left. For the longest time I refused to think of myself as female because I didn’t ever want to exprience being objectified like that ever again. …of course, what I’d like to know is if Shakes himself refrains from getting his “jollies” off women, at least not to their faces. If he admits that this is such an uncomfortable experience, then I hope that he doesn’t inflict it on other people. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/85 "2004-07-07T00:48:51Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > IT DOES NOT IMPAIR BIOLOGICAL PROCESSES. Well, actually, it does get in the way of reproduction. Then again, so do blowjobs, condoms and the rhythm method, so what difference does it make? It’s not like we’re going to run out of humans anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/86 "2004-07-07T00:52:31Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, actually, it does get in the way of reproduction. As has been noted already, no it doesn’t. We may still reproduce at will, with only some discomfort (maybe some psychological problems, but science works around that these days). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/87 "2004-07-07T01:04:03Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > As has been noted already, no it doesn’t. We may still reproduce at will, with only some discomfort (maybe some psychological problems, but science works around that these days). Ah, but _any_ barrier of any kind is counter-evolutionary in the sense that it gets in the way of propagating your genes. Of course, the same problem rests with a straight person who can only get in the mood while listening to Jolson records. In any case, inability or disinclination to reproduce are stupid reasons for hassling someone. I just respond when scientific inaccuracies are printed in BIG CAPITAL LETTERS as though volume can make something true. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/88 "2004-07-07T01:17:54Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Yeah, didn’t see that one coming. This is the part where you flip on your back and try to make yourself out to be the victim, a martyr as one of the last fighters against the Gay Agenda, taking one on the chin for the sake of morals and decency. Geez, are all of y’all following a script here? Nope not a victim here. As far as how is gay being harmfull? Well I guess it isn’t too harmfull aside from the fact that the spread of AIDS is rampant for homosexuals. Or the fact that I believe that for alot of gays also carries along a stigma of being corrupt in some way like I mentioned before about the gay friends that I’ve had. \*\*Even though I know some of you guys don’t want to believe it. Well ok fine, that’s your choice if you choose not to, but just keep in mind, every time you accuse me of being a liar only reinforces my beliefs and makes it hardeer for me to see the point you’re trying to get across. So if your intent is to post in this thread to tell me what a bigot I am; more power to ya! But if you actually want me to take into consideration the points you’re trying to make; then calling me a liar is just doing the opposite. Which btw, as far as that goes, I’ve already conceeded in the first half of this thread that “yeah, you guys are basically right” when it comes to “we shouldn’t discrminate against the gays.” Now, does that fit the profile of a man who’s big enough to admit when he’s wrong on certain issues; yet lies about the whole five friends thing? I don’t think so. Ya’ know I don’t spend a whole lot of time in GD’s but I’d be willing to wager that not a whole lot of people do that here. (admit when they’re wrong or sway on their views.)\*\* Or the fact that gay couple feel they are perfectly right and just bringing children into a gay relationship. By that I mean two Daddies want to raise a kid as their own. Idealy kids don’t deserve this, they deserve the very best life has to offer; Which would be both a mother AND a father. And for gay people to sit there and tell me they should have the right to raise children lilke this is shelfish at best. Now, granted, I’ll give you this, if a kid has a choice between living in poverty or living with a loving gay couple; I would of course choose that the kid live with the gay couple. Remember I said _idealy_ If we could cure the gay problem this wouldn’t ever happen. But aside from all that, from philosophical stand point, I think it’s a shame that gay people will never know the love that CAN be shared between a man and a woman. A love that could not possibly be equaled by any gay relationship. Sorry folks it’s just the natrual order of things. Yet I do agree a gay couple can share a genuine love for each other. It is still though, in the end, dysfuntional. Further more just because something isn’t “harmfull” doesn’t (to me) mean that we shouldn’t try to fix it. Just like there are alot of people out there who are born with skin problems or an extra nipple that doesn’t necessarily keep them from funtioning like a normal human being. But still, most these folks like to try and get this shit fixed if they can. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/89 "2004-07-07T01:31:52Z")
I’d just like it known that just because I disagree with spectrum and Zagadka on a minor point doesn’t mean I support any of the crap written immediately above this post. Invoking AIDS… yikes. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/90 "2004-07-07T01:36:55Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Idealy kids don’t deserve this, they deserve the very best life has to offer; Which would be both a mother AND a father. And for gay people to sit there and tell me they should have the right to raise children lilke this is shelfish at best. > […] > But aside from all that, from philosophical stand point, I think it’s a shame that gay people will never know the love that CAN be shared between a man and a woman. A love that could not possibly be equaled by any gay relationship. Sorry folks it’s just the natrual order of things. Yet I do agree a gay couple can share a genuine love for each other. It is still though, in the end, dysfuntional. Unbelievable. Just when I think you can’t get any more offensive, you go and surprise me again. I have had a _lot_ of hateful things said about me, but I never saw _anyone_ so “shelfish” as to say that I had no capacity to understand true love. **SHAKES** , remember what I said earlier about trying to come up with coherent rebuttals to the things being said in this thread? Forget it. It just gets worse each time. Just say what you’re really thinking, call me a worthless diseased faggot, and be done with it. It would save us all a lot of time. I’m done. For real this time. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/91 "2004-07-07T01:41:20Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Well I guess it isn’t too harmfull aside from the fact that the spread of AIDS is rampant for homosexuals. Well, I don’t quite know how to respond to THAT. > [@](#): > > Or the fact that I believe that for alot of gays also carries along a stigma of being corrupt Or that > [@](#): > > Or the fact that gay couple feel they are perfectly right and just bringing children into a gay relationship. By that I mean two Daddies want to raise a kid as their own. Idealy kids don’t deserve this Bring on your scientific studies on the harm of gay parents raising children. > [@](#): > > But aside from all that, from philosophical stand point, I think it’s a shame that gay people will never know the love that CAN be shared between a man and a woman. O\_O (Actually, I’m bi, so this doesn’t apply to me, but my O\_O stands on its own accord of shock) > [@](#): > > A love that could not possibly be equaled by any gay relationship. How would you know? ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/92 "2004-07-07T02:02:44Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, actually, it does get in the way of reproduction. How? I have a fully functional male reproductive system. I could reproduce if I wanted to. I wouldn’t enjoy the act, but it’d still be effective. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/93 "2004-07-07T02:04:17Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > I’m done. For real this time. Yep me too. And FTR I have NEVER thought of homosexuals as lesser people. Also I open my home and am willing to break with; and have stimuatling conversation with ANYONE who wants to share a mutual respect. I’ve never (in my adult life) shut anyone out based solely on their sexual orientation, race or religious beliefs. period. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/94 "2004-07-07T02:11:01Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > snip > > Ha! **Mockingbird** , If I were gay I’d be get’n WAY better ass than you my friend. > > snip. Can you prove it? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/95 "2004-07-07T02:13:39Z")
I’d say that I hope your children turn out gay, so that you are confronted with the true vileness of your thoughts and nature. But I wouldn’t wish that upon them. You’d probably just beat them to death, so long as you could do it without getting blood on your favorite pointy white hat. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/96 "2004-07-07T02:43:12Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > How? I have a fully functional male reproductive system. I could reproduce if I wanted to. I wouldn’t enjoy the act, but it’d still be effective. Well, this is getting into hairsplitting territory, but your lack of enjoyment does, in fact, offer a minor impairment to a biological process, i.e. reproduction. Of course, I have the same impairment, being a heterosexual male who has chosen not to reproduce at all. I’m also left-handed. And I have no problem with gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/97 "2004-07-07T02:48:10Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Can you prove it? > > :rolleyes: No, he can’t. Especially for the fact of that I will not objectify someone who is a liaison, and treat them with the same consideration that I would treat anyone else. I never consider someone a piece of ass. I have also loved and been loved in return unconditionally. I doubt he can say the same. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/98 "2004-07-07T02:54:08Z")
I have found this to be a most illuminating discussion. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/99 "2004-07-07T04:01:30Z")
Why is this conversation even being allowed? Why is this considered a reputable topic for a “debate”, this thinly veiled gay-hatred and bashing? Why does this board consider my core humanity, my worth as a human being, to be a topic worthy of debate? We don’t allow this sort of shit regarding race. We wouldn’t put up with someone Where are the moderators closing this thread like they do those that smack of Stormfront and race hatred? because this “person” is no better than the Stormfront klan. But here we are… Debating whether gays are diseased, worthless vermin. Debating whether i am diseased, worthless vermin. And it’s allowed. How can this be allowed? How can decent people allow this? How? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596/100 "2004-07-07T04:06:29Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > We don’t allow this sort of shit regarding race. Actually… we do, semi-frequently. And we let them say their peace, then we bury them with science. Then the claw their way out and start cussing. I suggest taking the same tack and ask him for science backing up his claims, such as “gays can’t raise kids” and other claims, and counter it with our own science. That is how we do things in GD. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-allow-gay-marriages-a-different-take-i-think/253596.md?page=6)