# If we go into default, is it ethical to force us to pay taxes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 16, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369 "2013-10-16T02:36:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/1 "2013-10-16T02:36:36Z")
I mean, I know we’ll still have to, I’m just asking if it’s ethical to make us do so? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/2 "2013-10-16T02:40:08Z")
If we go into default, is it ethical to go beat the living shit out of the republican leadership in order to relieve our stress? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/3 "2013-10-16T02:41:45Z")
Some people would say it’s never ethical to force us to pay taxes. But that’s another thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/4 "2013-10-16T03:00:50Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I mean, I know we’ll still have to, I’m just asking if it’s ethical to make us do so? Why wouldn’t it be? If it’s supposed to be self-evident, it isn’t to me. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/5 "2013-10-16T03:08:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why wouldn’t it be? If it’s supposed to be self-evident, it isn’t to me. Well, if my phone company stopped working, I wouldn’t keep paying the bill. ETA: If my phone company told me I could only make local calls, I wouldn’t keep paying the bill. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/6 "2013-10-16T03:17:39Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Well, if my phone company stopped working, I wouldn’t keep paying the bill. > > ETA: If my phone company told me I could only make local calls, I wouldn’t keep paying the bill. Bad analogy. We’ve all experienced periods of no cell service, and we don’t get a refund. Now, if you were asking if the shutdown and default lasted multiple years, that would be different. But you didn’t ask that. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/7 "2013-10-16T03:23:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Bad analogy. We’ve all experienced periods of no cell service, and we don’t get a refund. > > Now, if you were asking if the shutdown and default lasted multiple years, that would be different. But you didn’t ask that. OK, let’s say this current stalemate lasts until we elect a new congress. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/8 "2013-10-16T03:27:04Z")
if a government shuts down, do the people still have to pay taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/9 "2013-10-16T03:46:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Bad analogy. We’ve all experienced periods of no cell service, and we don’t get a refund. Hijack: Yes you do. If your cable, internet, or phone goes out, the company will refund you the pro-rated amount for the outage time. Give 'em a call next time and see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/10 "2013-10-16T03:48:22Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I mean, I know we’ll still have to, I’m just asking if it’s ethical to make us do so? Yes. > [@For You](#): > > If we go into default, is it ethical to go beat the living shit out of the republican leadership in order to relieve our stress? Also yes. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/11 "2013-10-16T04:37:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yes. > > Also yes. Wow, very informative. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/12 "2013-10-16T07:26:14Z")
Do you think the government sector of your **society** will function better if it has to start up again without any money? Comparing to the something like a phone company isn’t really valid since a government can’t go bankrupt to the extent that a business can. A phone company can be sold piecemeal to cover outstanding debt. Very few bits of the US government can be sold off. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/13 "2013-10-16T08:25:29Z")
If I understand it correctly Congress has already agreed on how much tax you pay but are disagreeing on what to do with that tax money. We are bound by the common consent of the country through representatives to pay the taxes set. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/14 "2013-10-16T12:09:22Z")
Are you still being defended by the military? Still eating USDA-inspected meat? Still traveling on airplanes guided by the FAA? You’re still using govenment services, a temporary stop on some of them doesn’t give you an excuse to bail on your obligations as a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/15 "2013-10-16T12:37:15Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Very few bits of the US government can be sold off. With respect, that’s not true. The government owns the mineral rights to pretty much everything starting at the Rocky Mountains (And a little bit east of there into the plain) and going until it hits the ocean. Even if we left national parks and the like as-is, we could generate a whole crapload of revenue in a lot of that land by selling off those rights. And that’s just land assets. There is a bunch of rotting ships and stock piled planes that could be stripped down for scrap value that could be sold as a set of auctionable lots. Then there are the countless buildings owned by the federal government all over the US that exists as real property that could also be sold off. Even if we left things like the White House and Congressional buildings as part of the government, we’d be able to generate a fairly hefty chunk of change. And these are in no way exhaustive. The federal government owns a lot more that could be sold than I think you realize. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/16 "2013-10-16T13:22:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Are you still being defended by the military? Still eating USDA-inspected meat? Still traveling on airplanes guided by the FAA? You’re still using govenment services, a temporary stop on some of them doesn’t give you an excuse to bail on your obligations as a citizen. Would we still have all those things if the stalemate continued though? (I ask, because I don’t know.) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/17 "2013-10-16T13:34:03Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Would we still have all those things if the stalemate continued though? (I ask, because I don’t know.) At some point, perhaps not. If and when the rule of law is no more, anarchy is the order of the day, and mobs patrol the streets then no, you won’t have to pay taxes. Of course any money you have won’t be worth much besides lining bird cages, but you could keep 100% of whatever money you had when society broke down. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-go-into-default-is-it-ethical-to-force-us-to-pay-taxes/671369/18 "2013-10-16T14:34:01Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Would we still have all those things if the stalemate continued though? (I ask, because I don’t know.) By the time tax season rolls around, I tend to doubt it. I don’t see how there couldn’t be mass job desertion, even by those in essential service sectors, if they are forced to work without pay for 6 months. Fortunately, there’s no way the shutdown will be allowed to continue that long.