# If we had a multiparty system in America, which party would you support? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462 "2004-11-02T00:47:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/21 "2004-11-02T04:34:06Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’m voting for Michael Peroutka (Constitution Party) tomorrow. Well done! I hope that more godly folk like yourself abandon the GOP for a party that really embodies the values of America. By all means, get more of your freinds and family to vote for Peroutka. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/22 "2004-11-02T04:43:26Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Well done! I hope that more godly folk like yourself abandon the GOP for a party that really embodies the values of America. By all means, get more of your freinds and family to vote for Peroutka. . . . he said, hiding a smirk behind his hand. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/23 "2004-11-02T04:50:29Z")
Democratic socialist party, is there such a choice? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/24 "2004-11-02T05:15:32Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Democratic socialist party, is there such a choice? That would be the one I named the “Progressive Party” in the OP. It might form out of a merger of the Socialist Party USA ([http://www.sp-usa.org/](http://www.sp-usa.org/)); the Democratic Socialists of America ([http://www.dsausa.org/](http://www.dsausa.org/)); the Social Democrats USA ([http://www.socialdemocrats.org/](http://www.socialdemocrats.org/)); the state-level remnants of the defunct New Party ([http://www.newparty.org/](http://www.newparty.org/)), such as the Working Families Party in New York ([http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/](http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/)); and similar state parties such as Bernie Sanders’ Progressive Party of Vermont ([http://www.progressiveparty.org/](http://www.progressiveparty.org/)). Essentially it would be an American analogue of Canada’s New Democratic Party ([http://www.ndp.ca/](http://www.ndp.ca/)). As for the Communist Party USA, the Socialist Workers Party, and various other Trotskyist and Maoist organizations, I don’t envision them going anywhere, even under a PR system. ---
**Author:** ![smartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@smartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smartini)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/25 "2004-11-02T06:10:24Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Not trying to be snarky here but didn’t Germany have a multiparty system before Hitler came into power? > > Anyway sign me up for the **Keg Party** 😃 I’d still be a Democrat because I think I got it right the first time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/26 "2004-11-02T06:53:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I was basing that on the German system, where you need 5% or more to get into the Bundestag. That cutoff level has frozen out all neo-Nazi parties while sometimes admitting the Greens, sometimes excluding them. Also, my preferred form of PR for the U.S. is a multi-member-district system, with each district electing a ten-member delegation by single-transferable-voting. (This system, which they use in Ireland ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics\_of\_the\_Republic\_of\_Ireland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland)), preserves some connection between representatives and a geographic region – really, how many Americans want to do away with porkbarrelling entirely?) And under that system, no party would get any representation in Congress unless it could get 10% support in at least one district. > > But that’s a detail. I’m not saying it’s indefensible to restrict representation to some minimum amount in the legislature, **BrainGlutton**. I’m afraid I’m enough of an idealist to feel that even allowing a few idiots/whackos to have their single (or similar number) of representatives in Congress is worth it as the price of allowing a vote for people who want to vote for the candidate they most favor - or even on single issue parties. Even if we’re talking Neo-Nazi’s, White Supremicists, Black Supremicists, or other fringe group that wants me dead. I’m just… embittered by how my state has worked for the past 50+ years (at least) to disenfranchise anyone who’s not a member of a major political party. The 5% rule for the ballot line, for example, is only one of the ways that the two political parties keep themselves above the fray and needs of other parties to keep current with the electorate. Frankly it’s a part and parcel of how I view the the idea of restricting liberty to provide _safety_. I think, honestly, the only way to prevent another Oklahoma City, or the original Twin Towers bombing, would be to allow government far too much power and control over people - internal passports, getting permission to cross state lines, in short all the things that restricted people under the old Soviet system. I would far rather spend money on other things than, say, making the border between the US and Canada impereable. (If you believe it can be done - let’s see we can’t close the US-Mexico border, with some impressive terrain features aiding it - and these people think they can close the US-Canada border which is 3-5 times longer, lacks the terrain features… er… sorry, mini-rant about proposals of my junior, crack-smoking senator…) Oh, I don’t know, things like education, balancing the budget, paying military servicemembers what they’re worth, given the risks they’re facing. Anyways, looking at the links you’ve provided on the Irish system, it looks good. I have to say, however, I’d be rather skeptical of going to it without a bit more thought on my part. Removing the Senate’s equal representation for each state, for example, would basically put Nevada up the creek w/regards to the Yucca Mountain Facility. Mind you, I think it’s needed, and the best available compromise - but, I can understand why the people living near the facilty aren’t happy about the transport arrangements. And this is from someone who actually believes that the transport containers work very well. I’d want to review something like your proposal very carefully to avoid a “Tyranny of the Majority.” Sorry for the long winded hijack, I just have trouble keeping quiet sometimes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/27 "2004-11-02T10:51:43Z")
> [@TitoBenito](#): > > I’d be a Democrat. Too bad the real party isn’t more like that. What was it Roy Rogers said? “I’m not a member of any organized political party. I’m a Democrat.” IIRC. I’d probably go Libertarian, then Independance, and the Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/28 "2004-11-02T12:51:25Z")
The **All Night Party**! WOOO! 🙂 [HERE’S](http://hjem.get2net.dk/d_archer/HTD_08.jpg) the Candidate. He’ll not duck the issues! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/29 "2004-11-02T12:53:05Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > The **All Night Party**! > > WOOO! 🙂 > > [HERE’S](http://hjem.get2net.dk/d_archer/HTD_08.jpg) the Candidate. > He’ll not duck the issues! [CAMPAIGN BUTTON](http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/news_images/2238_5867_1.jpg) 🆒🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/30 "2004-11-02T13:26:47Z")
I’m not for full-on Libertarianism with regards to the shrinking of government, but it or the Independence Party sound like the best fit for me. The America First and Constitution Parties are abhorrent to mine eyes, as is the Progressive Party, probably. (I assume the Progressives would include such gems as the members of PETA) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/31 "2004-11-02T13:31:24Z")
Honestly, it depends on what percentage of the vote each party commands. If we’re using IRV and there are two dominant parties, I’d support the libertarians, I think. If there are three or more viable candidates in a given election, though, I’d have to think more–IRV doesn’t eliminate the need to vote strategically, so it’s hard to say. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/32 "2004-11-02T17:06:07Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > (I assume the Progressives would include such gems as the members of PETA) No, I think the PETA people would be more likely to go Green. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/33 "2004-11-02T17:10:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I think the PETA people would be more likely to go Green. That would’ve been my second guess. The Progressives, as written above, sounded more ‘intensely activist’ than the Greens. I don’t like activists. I’m an inactivist. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/34 "2004-11-02T17:12:20Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Not trying to be snarky here but didn’t Germany have a multiparty system before Hitler came into power? From “A Radical Plan to Change American Politics,” by Michael Lind, in _The Atlantic Monthly,_ August 1992: > [@](#): > > One question that immediately comes to mind is, Would a multiparty system exaggerate the power of small, extremist parties in the House? The danger that such parties might hold the key to House leadership would be eliminated by the leadership reforms proposed above. If the position of speaker of the House rotated among the members of a leadership committee elected by cumulative vote, moderate parties would be assured of exercising power in their turn and having substantial weight on the leadership committees, without having to make any compromises with extremists. > > The chances that tiny fringe parties would win significant representation would be limited by the division of the country into multimember districts. The danger of extremism could also be guarded against by setting a threshold for participation in the legislature. Germany’s requirement that parties get five percent of the nationwide vote, for example, has been enough to exclude both the neo-Nazi Republicans and the radical-left Greens. Anyone who argues for a higher threshold should explain just which 10 or 20 percent of his fellow citizens are so dangerous that they should be effectively disenfranchised. > > It is extremely doubtful that PR could bring black-nationalist or white-supremacist parties to power in the House. Since blacks constitute only 12 percent of the population, and an even smaller proportion of the electorate, most black voters would have to support an extremist party for it to clear a five-percent threshold. It seems unlikely that they would, because more-moderate multiracial parties would more accurately reflect the economic concerns and values of most black voters. Even if a black-nationalist party passed the five-percent hurdle, it could be kept out of the House leadership. To elect one member to a five-member leadership committee, at least 17 percent of the House membership would be necessary. Black radicals would have to form coalitions with non-blacks. > > What about white Klansmen and neo-Nazis? Right-wing nationalist parties have made gains in recent European elections, but these are protest votes by moderate voters who seek to change particular policies of centrist parties, not to replace those parties permanently with extremists. In the United States the support for Buchanan’s extreme conservatism, even in the Republican Party, appears to have been in the single digits, and support for David Duke-style racism vanishingly small. This suggests that the only viable far-right parties in a multiparty House would be Pat Robertson-style Christian conservatives, not Aryan Nation skinheads. > > **Those who claim that PR was responsible for the electoral successes of the National Socialist party in Weimar Germany are mistaken, according to no less an authority than Hermann Goering. Enid Lakeman, a British advocate of PR, writes of Weimar Germany that “if the British electoral system had been in use [the Nazi party] might have been grossly over-represented…Goering said at his trial that under the British system that [1933] election would have given the Nazis every seat in the country, and he cannot have been far wrong.” Hitler would have loved the Anglo-American electoral system.** ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/35 "2004-11-02T17:13:08Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I don’t like activists. I’m an inactivist. Is an inactivist like an obstructionist? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/36 "2004-11-02T17:21:48Z")
Meh. Either Independance or possibly Democrat, depending on the details. Or I’d start my own. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/37 "2004-11-02T17:22:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From “A Radical Plan to Change American Politics,” by Michael Lind, in _The Atlantic Monthly,_ August 1992: Good quote. The success of the National Socialist party in elections had far more to do with both the way the Nazis could intimidate other voters,and the domestic upheaval caused by the Great Depression, on top of the war reparations being paid out. The fact of the Weimar Republic’s multiparty system is far from a cause of the Nazis rise to power. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/38 "2004-11-02T17:22:51Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Is an inactivist like an obstructionist? :eek: Don’t know what an obstructionist is, exactly. I’m opposed to activism because activists are annoying. Well, most of them. Some groups do it well. [Truth.org](http://Truth.org), the anti-smoking guys, used to be halfway amusing with their little TV spots. Very early on. Then they got all preachy and obnoxious. PETA’s a perfect example of bad activism. They go beyond relaying their message and writing to politicians and such and actually intrude upon and interfere with people’s day to day lives. PETA actually annoys me so much that the contrarian in me wants to eat at KFC just to spite them. It doesn’t hurt that KFC has good chicken, either… ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/39 "2004-11-02T17:27:33Z")
I already voted Libertarian this morning. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462/40 "2004-11-02T17:29:18Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Don’t know what an obstructionist is, exactly. I’m opposed to activism because activists are annoying. Well, most of them. Some groups do it well. [Truth.org](http://Truth.org), the anti-smoking guys, used to be halfway amusing with their little TV spots. Very early on. Then they got all preachy and obnoxious. PETA’s a perfect example of bad activism. They go beyond relaying their message and writing to politicians and such and actually intrude upon and interfere with people’s day to day lives. PETA actually annoys me so much that the contrarian in me wants to eat at KFC just to spite them. It doesn’t hurt that KFC has good chicken, either… Sorry, I was actually just trying to make a pun, not accusing of anything improper. My apologies for not making that clear. Seriously, there are levels of activism out there. Some of it is very good: The models used by MADD, SADD, or the alliance of people pushing for ‘Timothy’s Law’ here in NYS are good, to the point, and low-key enough that they sound reasonable, not strident. Then you get some of it where… they’re the next best thing to terrorist groups. Frankly, I think PeTA’s links to ALF and ELF do make it a terrorist group. But, because they’re so outrageous, and have enough brain dead celebs mindwashed, they can keep their message in the minds of people. What they don’t seem to be able to realize is that their actions actually alienate the very people they should be trying to woo: Those who don’t have a strong conviction one way or the other on their issue. Again, sorry for not making my attempt at humor more clear, **Candid Gamera**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-had-a-multiparty-system-in-america-which-party-would-you-support/272462.md?page=3)