# If we should love our enemy, should we love even Satan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132 "2005-08-08T17:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/21 "2005-08-12T11:36:42Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > As this thread has returned, I want to move on slightly to the second part of the OP. > > How should people who wish to be good people _love_ Fred Phelps? Whew!! Reading about Phelps reminds me I have a long way to go. I would regard him as someone who is dangerously deranged. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/22 "2005-08-12T15:10:40Z")
Well, it is often said that “we always hurt the ones we love”, so hurting Phelps might not be completely incompatable with trying to live a good life 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/23 "2005-08-12T15:24:35Z")
I’ve pondered this question quite a bit myself. I have an album called “The Perfect Element” by a band called Pain of Salvation, which I’ve interpreted as a concept album about the crucifixion of Christ. There’s a song called Ashes, which I think is Satan talking to Jesus as he arrives in Hell. The lyrics to that song made me pity Satan more than anything else. Consider that he used to be higher than all the angels, second only to God himself. Now he’s king of his realm, but he knows his time will end one day. He’s probably really lonely. How can you not pity someone like that? But to really answer the OP’s question, I’d just say to go with what **Tris** said. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/24 "2005-08-12T16:31:51Z")
Thanks **Lord Ashtar** it is the idea that pity is what is meant by love thine enimies which I wonder about. Pity rarely seems to me to be truly a feeling of love, for pitty requires that you feel greater than that which you pitty and so is charged with too much pride for my liking. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/25 "2005-08-12T16:32:43Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies- in Revelation 6, the martyrs in Heaven are shown praying for their enemies- for God to pour vengeance upon them. > > Amen. Man, **Ted**. I lost a little respect for you on this affirmation. That’s a precept of Satanism. Number 5 of the nine Satanic Statements: \*\*5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek! \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/26 "2005-08-12T17:06:00Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Thanks **Lord Ashtar** it is the idea that pity is what is meant by love thine enimies which I wonder about. Pity rarely seems to me to be truly a feeling of love, for pitty requires that you feel greater than that which you pitty and so is charged with too much pride for my liking. I just had another thought. Jesus said to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Does Satan count as our neighbor? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/27 "2005-08-12T18:50:37Z")
During a rare indulgence in TV trash, I watched VH1’s top 100 Hard Rock Artists last night. Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax, Möterhead, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest…frickin’ SABBATH (in no particular order)! In my mind, the OP’s question is newly resolved: If this is “the Devil’s music”, I move we cut the guy all the slack he needs. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/28 "2005-08-12T20:31:20Z")
> [@](#): > > by **Bippy** > How should people who wish to be good people love Fred Phelps? I admit, Phelps is a pretty bad one. In many ways, I think he comes frighteningly close to complete evil, to the point at which no one could see good. If even half the things I’ve heard about are true, he’s a true fiend in mortal guise. However, one always remind one’sself that such men are also, well, men. Human. And that the line dividing them and use is terribly thin, so thin that it has no existence from a biological POV. And secondly, that Phelps is ultimatly a pathetic and sad little figure, not even _worthy_ of human hatred. > [@](#): > > by **Triskademus** > If he contends with you, and invites you to condemn him, decline, for we are each and all sinners, yet each is beloved of Christ. And this is of course what Phelps does. Actually, I do pity Satan, and even wish I could take just a small, tiny part of his pain away. I guess it must seem twisted - and I guess I don’t feel that very often for men like Phelps or Bin Laden - but I do wish him happier things. But wishing, it seems, is all I can do. How could I give good to him? Or to any of them? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/29 "2005-08-12T23:12:49Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I just had another thought. Jesus said to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Does Satan count as our neighbor? Maybe not but the wack job cultist who lives next door is. What if they knowck on your door and ask. “hey we’re having a little get together tonight and were wobdering if we could borrow a large kitchen knife and a goat” ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/30 "2005-08-13T04:05:17Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Maybe not but the wack job cultist who lives next door is. > What if they knowck on your door and ask. “hey we’re having a little get together tonight and were wobdering if we could borrow a large kitchen knife and a goat” Well, if he were my next door neighbor, I would remind him that goats are not on the list of approved pets in our apartment development, and the county has humane slaughter laws he should be aware of, as well. By the way, candles are to be in metal containers, and off the floor, by the order of the fire marshal. Oh, and chickens, specifically roosters are also mentioned in the lease as disallowed pets. Snakes are OK, though. I’m kinda protective of my kitchen knives, and would be reluctant to lend one to anyone. Not a religious thing, you know, just a personal thing. Tris ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/31 "2005-08-13T12:20:58Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > Well, if he were my next door neighbor, I would remind him that goats are not on the list of approved pets in our apartment development, and the county has humane slaughter laws he should be aware of, as well. By the way, candles are to be in metal containers, and off the floor, by the order of the fire marshal. Oh, and chickens, specifically roosters are also mentioned in the lease as disallowed pets. Snakes are OK, though. > > I’m kinda protective of my kitchen knives, and would be reluctant to lend one to anyone. Not a religious thing, you know, just a personal thing. > > Tris [singing} “every Satanic party needs a pooper that’s wny we invited you…party pooper” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wayward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a87d85/32.png) [@wayward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wayward)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/32 "2005-08-15T13:33:52Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > Love Phelps in the same way that you love all your brothers and sisters on this earth. Do no harm to him, and if he is in need, give to him that which he needs. If he speaks ill of you, return his words with kindness, and with understanding. Speak to him of the love of God, the love of Christ, and the love of his fellow man. He may not agree with you. If he tells you of the heart and mind of the God, know he is speaking to the Lord, even if he does not know it. The hatred he offers in God’s name is offered to God Himself. Let God do with it, as He will. > > If you believe that he condemns you for your actions, and that he should not, then by that logic, so you must not condemn him. It is not your office to judge his heart of any man, but rather all hearts are revealed to the Lord, and the authority of judgement is His. If he contends with you, and invites you to condemn him, decline, for we are each and all sinners, yet each is beloved of Christ. > > Kindness and compassion are the reflection of Christ in your heart. When you feel them leave your heart, you are turning away from Him. Turn around. > > Tris Slight hijack, but it occurs to me this is basically what I believe, only without all the God and Jesus stuff. What does that make me? P.S. I still think Phelps is scum and probably wouldn’t mind telling him so,and in slightly more colourful language, but that doesn’t mean I believe it’s the _right_ thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/33 "2005-08-15T14:55:57Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Man, **Ted**. I lost a little respect for you on this affirmation. That’s a precept of Satanism. > > Number 5 of the nine Satanic Statements: > > \*\*5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek! \*\* Jesus reading his resume’- Luke 4: 17. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. The original text of the job description- Isaiah 61: 1. The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2. _To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance_ of our God; to comfort all that mourn; Jesus speaking of his Father’s & his duties- Luke 18 1. And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2. Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3. And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 4. And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5. Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. 6. And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. 7. _And shall not God avenge his own elect_, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8. _I tell you that he will avenge them speedily._ Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Jesus telling of Jerusalem’s fate & His judging presence, finishing the Isaiah passage- Luke 21: 20. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22. _For these be the days of vengeance_, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Anton LaVey came up with his Satanic philosophy in the 1960s, partly in protest to an anemic gutless parody of Christian faith, tho he’d probably also have hated a strong vibrant Christianity also. “Vengeance” need not mean vindictiveness but can mean harsh & thorough justice. God didn’t spare it for Himself at Golgotha nor will He spare those who bring it upon themselves. It’s not my fault that LaVey ripped off a valid principle of Biblical teaching. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/34 "2005-08-15T15:09:56Z")
> [@wayward](#): > > Slight hijack, but it occurs to me this is basically what I believe, only without all the God and Jesus stuff. What does that make me? The beloved child of God. Tris ---
**Author:** ![wayward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a87d85/32.png) [@wayward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wayward)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/35 "2005-08-15T15:19:34Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > The beloved child of God. > > Tris :)/ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/36 "2005-08-17T09:46:40Z")
I think we are compelled to love our neighbor and fellow man, but Satan is neither a man nor our neighbor. Not being in God’s image nor filled with the slightest degree of goodness makes Satan not worthy of human love. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/37 "2005-08-17T16:05:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think we are compelled to love our neighbor and fellow man, but Satan is neither a man nor our neighbor. Not being in God’s image nor filled with the slightest degree of goodness makes Satan not worthy of human love. But Satan was originally an angel, so was presumably made by God either to be good and through pride became evil, or was made in order to become evil. If ‘In God’s Image’ implies having free will then the Angels maybe don’t have free will at all? Were the Angels also made in God’s image? Maybe that question is worth another thread? ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132/38 "2005-08-20T19:38:43Z")
> [@JustAnotherGeek](#): > > Luke 6: 27-36 seems to suggest so. I was always taught to love the sinner, hate the sin (nowadays, I’m abit less forgiving). > Funny: no one suggest how I was to love the sinner. Love him enough to teach him the Gospel and way of salvation. Satan is no longer on the topside of this earth and no longer subject to the call of the Gospel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-we-should-love-our-enemy-should-we-love-even-satan/316132.md?page=1)