# If we're supposed to like these characters, why are they such tools? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760 "2007-06-28T13:16:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/21 "2007-06-28T16:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=Orual] In a similar vein: JD and Elliot on _Scrubs_. [/QUOTE] I came in here specifically to mention JD. God, I hate him!!! Elliot bugs me with her new-found cockiness and extremely condescending personality, but JD is an actual jerk. He’s a liar, an incompetant doctor, and he’s completely self-absorbed. I hate him. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/22 "2007-06-28T16:37:11Z")
[QUOTE=FlyingDragonFan] Isn’t that kind of the point of the whole movie, that we’re watching a bunch of pretty screwed-up people? [/QUOTE] That’s all right. But, I found them pathetic and whiny, not sympathetic. I think they’re supposed to be likable, but as the OP said, I really wanted to toss them into a volcano. They’re characters who will never snap out of and never be of any use to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/23 "2007-06-28T16:38:58Z")
I know that people say that the characters on Seinfeld were supposed to be unlikeable and that’s what they liked about them. I never understood that. They were unlikeable and that why I didn’t watch. That’s true for a surprising number of sitcoms. Some people like the characters despite their unlikeability. Scrubs is apparently another one. Cheers was a major example. In fact, most sitcoms today are full of tools. I find that weird. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/24 "2007-06-28T16:39:30Z")
That said, I do like JD. The difference between Scrubs and Garden State is that in both he plays a whiny man-girl, but in GS, he asks us to sympathize with him. In Scrubs, he repeatedly gets beat-down for it, and is self-aware about it. Huge difference, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/25 "2007-06-28T17:28:14Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Well, Elliot is hot enough that a guy could put up with her for a weekend, but what the hell is it with JD or Zach Braff? JD is a nauseating excuse for a human and Braff is a lousy actor who is butt ugly, so why is he a leading man? [/QUOTE] I think he’s cute. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/26 "2007-06-28T17:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] On the same network, everyone’s supposed to be madly in love with Special Sparkly Princess Lana Lang on _Smallville_. With all respect to Kristen Kreuk, I’ve yet to meet a fan who is. [/QUOTE] The way the shows’ producers focused on hyping up the Lana Lang character (because Kristin Kreuk is SO HOT! :rolleyes: ) basically ruined the show for me. The first few seasons were great, then the whole Clark-Lex dynamic (the most interesting part of the show for me) was pushed to second stage to make room for Ms. Kreuk. Blecch! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/27 "2007-06-28T17:37:30Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Well, Elliot is hot enough that a guy could put up with her for a weekend, but what the hell is it with JD or Zach Braff? JD is a nauseating excuse for a human and Braff is a lousy actor who is butt ugly, so why is he a leading man? [/QUOTE] Because he somehow managed to get in on the ground floor of a show with very good writing and an incredible supporting cast. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/28 "2007-06-28T17:38:32Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] I’d guess the penultimate would be Zakalwe in “Use of Weapons.” The ultimate tool for dealing with violent barbarians in the hands of the Culture. A genocide, a mass-murderer and … the Chairmaker. And yet Iain Banks writes him as a sympathetic character. Riiiiiight. [/QUOTE] what would be the ultimate then? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/29 "2007-06-28T17:42:32Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Cheers was a major example. In fact, most sitcoms today are full of tools. I find that weird. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I remember watching one time and there was an episode where Sam had to hire a bouncer (“Ogre” from Revenge of the Nerds) because of some problems they were having. IIRC, everyone was extremely mean to him, and he basically walked off, presumably to kill himself (not really). And nothing ever came of it. No apologies. No regrets. Just making fun of the big dumb guy till he left. That was when I realized what a horrible bunch of people the “Cheers” crowd was. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/30 "2007-06-28T17:49:08Z")
[QUOTE=whole bean] what would be the ultimate then? [/QUOTE] I’d tell you, but then I’d have to kill you. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/31 "2007-06-28T17:49:58Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Hah, hilarious. I came into this thread to mention Mary Jane Watson as portrayed by Kirsten Dunst (the doper who summed her up as an “abrasive, self-absorbed ditz” was dead on), and everyone on _Grey’s Anatomy_ except maybe George. [/QUOTE] Including George. The only one it doesn’t apply to is Dr. Bailey. I’d like to nominate the four leads in _Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip_ (Danny, Matt, Harriet and Jordan.) I really really wanted to like this show, but now I can’t even remember to watch the last couple of epipsodes every Thursday night. And it’s because these two couples’ (as characters) every minute on screen do absolutely nothing for me. I don’t care if they get together or not. They only time I like any of those characters is when they’re not dealing with their own love lives. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/32 "2007-06-28T17:54:59Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] I know that people say that the characters on Seinfeld were supposed to be unlikeable and that’s what they liked about them. I never understood that. They were unlikeable and that why I didn’t watch. That’s true for a surprising number of sitcoms. Some people like the characters despite their unlikeability. Scrubs is apparently another one. Cheers was a major example. In fact, most sitcoms today are full of tools. I find that weird. [/QUOTE] Today? What about miserly Jack Benny, conniving Sgt. Bilko, or the Bickersons? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/33 "2007-06-28T18:21:59Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] I know that people say that the characters on Seinfeld were supposed to be unlikeable and that’s what they liked about them. I never understood that. They were unlikeable and that why I didn’t watch. [/QUOTE] **Seinfeld** also has to be put into context of the times as well. The show debuted at the tail-end of a long period where TV was dominated by cloying, schmaltzy artificially-‘earnest & sincere’ shows like “the Wonder Years” or “Family Ties.” When “Seinfeld” first debuted, it really was a welcome change to see a show that didn’t have Very Special Episodes and had characters that didn’t learn Very Important Lessons each week. It’s impact of course has been watered down after years & years of inferior shows trying to imitate it. Anyway, for me the most annoying ‘beloved’ character was Daphne from **Frasier**. Why in the world was Niles so obsessed with her for all that time? She’s a flaky, empty-headed, not-especially-funny bimbo with the most grating accent of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Smitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/34 "2007-06-28T18:25:07Z")
I’d have to say pretty much all of Tim’s family, including himself, on **Home Improvement.** His wife was a whiny, ball-breaking bitch; his kids were the typical smart mouth little sitcom shits that needed five across the eye; and he was an ineffectual, pussy whipped idiot. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/35 "2007-06-28T18:29:07Z")
[QUOTE=Smitty] I’d have to say pretty much all of Tim’s family, including himself, on **Home Improvement.** His wife was a whiny, ball-breaking bitch; his kids were the typical smart mouth little sitcom shits that needed five across the eye; and he was an ineffectual, pussy whipped idiot. [/QUOTE] Totally agreed. When the most appealing character on your sitcom is completely hidden behind a fence, your sitcom has problems. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/36 "2007-06-28T18:32:32Z")
Prince in **Purple Rain**. As the viewer, I know I was supposed to feel sympathetic at his struggle with tragedy and cheer his final validation, but he was just a whiny egotistical misogynistic tool, as was everyone else in the movie. It was basically Saturday Night Fever with satin. ---
**Author:** ![Miscue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@Miscue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miscue)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/37 "2007-06-28T18:37:16Z")
Ben Stiller’s wife in Meet the Parents. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/38 "2007-06-28T19:04:26Z")
Beavis and Butt-Head. And, you are supposed to feel ambivalent-to-malevolent towards him, but also - Thomas Covenant. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/39 "2007-06-28T20:25:04Z")
Eric Cartman in “South Park.” If ever a kid was an argument for 40th-trimester abortions, he’s the one … ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/40 "2007-06-28T20:26:56Z")
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