# If we're supposed to like these characters, why are they such tools? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760 "2007-06-28T13:16:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/121 "2007-07-03T16:28:47Z")
[QUOTE=Rocketeer] I thought the **Lois & Clark** TV show did a good job of showing us a complex, strong Lois. At least the first couple seasons. [/QUOTE] I’m afraid I don’t watch much TV, and I don’t like the Superman saga enough to watch any TV based on it. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/122 "2007-07-03T17:19:36Z")
I never thought I could hate a character as much as Ray Romano’s on _Everybody Loves Raymond_. Then, I saw that Jim Belushi had a sitcom (actually, there’s this dopey sidekick on the show that is even worse). ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/123 "2007-07-03T18:05:59Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] ::gasping in horror:: Her name is Lyra Silvertongue! And you wouldn’t say such things if Iorek were around! Well, that’s not true. Iorek would let you say then, because otherwise he would not be justified in killing you for doing so. But once you’d said it, your skull would be all POP like an eggshell. [/QUOTE] Hell, if it meant I didn’t have spend time with her anymore, I’d poke him with a stick while saying it. In another genre - the entire cast of the mercifully cancelled **Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip** is in this category and the cast of **Grey’s Anatomy** is oozing their way there quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/124 "2007-07-03T18:30:27Z")
[QUOTE=Atomicktom] I never thought I could hate a character as much as Ray Romano’s on _Everybody Loves Raymond_. Then, I saw that Jim Belushi had a sitcom. [/QUOTE] Man, that guy is a total asshole. Why the hell is that woman staying with him instead of letting me make her happy for the rest of her life? It’s a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/125 "2007-07-03T18:32:23Z")
Is John Belushi the guy in that movie, um, the Big Lebowski? Because I hate that actor in every role and I fucking hate the movie. I don’t understand why people find a single thing in there funny. Oops, no, that was John _Goodman_. The only thing I have ever seen of Belushi is Animal House, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/126 "2007-07-03T18:50:51Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] Is John Belushi the guy in that movie, um, the Big Lebowski? Because I hate that actor in every role and I fucking hate the movie. I don’t understand why people find a single thing in there funny. Oops, no, that was John _Goodman_. The only thing I have ever seen of Belushi is Animal House, I guess. [/QUOTE] [John](http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=john+belushi) Belushi is dead. He was a pretty crazy guy (think Chris Farley before Chris Farley) who is best known for SNL and Animal House. [Jim](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000902/) Belushi is his no-talent brother, who managed to get a sitcom on TV called “According to Jim”, and I would be happy to throw him into a volcano. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/127 "2007-07-03T18:51:16Z")
That was Jim Belushi, now deceased. _John_ Belushi is his younger, much less talented brother. His sitcom is funnier than Ray Romano’s-- that’s not saying much I know, but John’s is actually watchable–but it’s true that the characters are unmitigated jerks. In fact, the characters are so over-the-top in how mean-spirited they are that it borders on Family Guy-style parody. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/128 "2007-07-03T21:57:56Z")
I thought “Family Guy” was parodying shows like “According to Everyone and Raymond and Jim.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/129 "2007-07-03T23:09:22Z")
[QUOTE=Scumpup] Every character from **The Sopranos** , but especially Tony. I watched the show for the first three seasons to enjoy seeing those slimeballs self-destruct or turn on each other. When it became evident that the writers had no intention of killing off Tony, I gave up on the show. [/QUOTE] Wait, you think we’re supposed to LIKE the Sopranos? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/130 "2007-07-03T23:16:03Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh] Bob from **What about Bob?** Now it so happens that in 20-odd years, I have run into my share of real Bob’s at work, too many to have any sort of sympathy for Bill Murray’s generally weird character. There are quite a few people out there who act that way, but they aren’t cute or funny or lovable. At all. Most of them are just annoying as hell, and a few of them are downright scary. It doesn’t take too long working customer service before you learn that lesson the hard way. I was feeling pretty sorry for Leo halfway through the movie, and by the end, I was asking myself why he didn’t just throw Bob in a lake tied to the chair instead of wasting good explosives on this privacy-invading creep. [/QUOTE] I liked him for about the first hour or so, when I thought it was one of those “Patriarch doesn’t get his family, misunderstood man child comes in and helps him discover the meaning of bonding/family.” But Bob was actually creepy. Though at one point, the family does start to dislike him, don’t they? On “House,” I dislike Cameron. I’m not sure if we’re supposed to, but she’s so self-righteous and pushy. The episode where she decides that House is supposed to have dinner with his parents and that everyone should come along was icky to watch. (I did like that she finally took a step back at the end.) As for “Sopranos,” it took me a while to get that we weren’t supposed to like them all. (Though in spite of it all, I still do.) Spoilers for Sopranos– When Tony killed Christopher this season, I disliked him for the first time. And then I had to take a step back. He’s done horrible things all throughout the show. The very first episode depicted him running down a guy who owed him money and laughing. They did a really good job of making him incredibly lovable in spite of all the horrid things he’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/131 "2007-07-04T01:16:26Z")
[QUOTE=Rocketeer] I used to have the utmost contempt for Schwimmer, until I saw **Band of Brothers** , where he does a very very good job of playing a martinet officer. I was pretty darned impressed. Of course, it’ll take him forever to get past the typecasting from playing Ross for so long. [/QUOTE] Ugh. I think that Schwimmer did a good job of playing _Ross Geller as a martinet officer_ in Band of Brothers. He had the exact same intonation, gestures, head tics and everything else. Watch and listen to him dressing down the men in formation in “Curahee” – vintage Ross. And, of course, all of the “Friends” were _such_ tools. But I’d like to put Holden Caulfield up for consideration. Had to read that in high school and could not _believe_ anyone thought people would like that annoying, whiny git. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/132 "2007-07-04T01:28:48Z")
Are we supposed to like Nancy (Mary-Louise Parker), the main character on _Weeds_? Because I cannot stand her. I wouldn’t even watch the show, but Mr. Del likes it so I end up seeing bits and pieces all the time. I find her attitude of “I can’t believe this is happening to me!” absolutely insufferable. It could also be that I don’t like Mary-Louise Parker, because her character on _the West Wing_ also made my skin crawl whenever she was on screen. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/133 "2007-07-04T03:10:17Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] You know, I actually forgot about Gentry lee. You’re probably right. [/QUOTE] The first three times I read this and the post preceding it, I though it said _Geddy_ Lee and wondered how I missed the damn _Rama_-themed Rush album… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/134 "2007-07-04T03:48:46Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] Didn’t her fiance give [the Heart of the Ocean diamond] to her as a gift? I think it did belong to her. She feigned curiosity about the salvage operation to get out to the boat so that she, as her fiance did, could bequeath it to her beloved. [/QUOTE] I don’t think he ever actually gave it to her, did he? That would have been uncharacteristically generous of him. And according to the script, he filed an insurance claim on the diamond after the ship sank. So legally, I suppose the diamond belonged to the insurance company that paid the claim. Regardless, Rose seemed remarkably ungrateful to Paxton and crew (not to mention dishonest and manipulative). She used them. She knew they were looking for the diamond; she could have just told them, “Sorry boys, I have the rock.” Instead, she concealed that fact and let them fly her out to the ship at their own expense, just so she could toss the diamond away. And I’m supposed to _like_ this person? ---
**Author:** ![DataZak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@DataZak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataZak)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/135 "2007-07-04T04:59:07Z")
Batman as written by Frank Miller in _All-Star Batman_. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/136 "2007-07-04T12:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=DataZak] Batman as written by Frank Miller in _All-Star Batman_. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry, but the thread is "fictional characters we’re mean to like but don’t, " not “works of fictional we pretend don’t exist so as to keep our eyes from bleeding when we think about it.” ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/137 "2007-07-04T12:55:16Z")
[QUOTE=DataZak] Batman as written by Frank Miller in _All-Star Batman_. [/QUOTE] Batman as written by ANYONE - including Grant Morrison and Paul Dini - for the last 15-30 years. I’m enjoying the Batbooks right now, but I still want to knock Bruce’s teeth out with a hammer. But especially Miller in anything. Dark Knight Returns doesn’t have quite so much of the [del]Basin[/del]Gotham City vibe Asbar does, even there he’s an ass. Strangely enough, the only book I think Bats comes across as actually likable in on a regular basis is Robin. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/138 "2007-07-08T11:32:28Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I don’t think he ever actually gave it to her, did he? That would have been uncharacteristically generous of him. And according to the script, he filed an insurance claim on the diamond after the ship sank. So legally, I suppose the diamond belonged to the insurance company that paid the claim. [/QUOTE] He did give it to her, with the unspoken understanding that she was to put out/submit. Later, she gave it back, and left the portrait with it to twist the knife. After that, it’s hard to say, because he planted it in Jack’s pocket, and I forget how it ended up in Cal’s pocket before he gave Rose his coat. At any rate, Cal must still have been the **legal** owner when he filed his claim. But I wouldn’t fault Rose for keeping it as “asshole tax” (tm Marla in Fight Club), after he shot at her. ---
**Author:** ![carterba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@carterba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carterba)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/139 "2007-07-08T20:19:44Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] Is John Belushi the guy in that movie, um, the Big Lebowski? Because I hate that actor in every role and I fucking hate the movie. I don’t understand why people find a single thing in there funny. [/QUOTE] Yeah, well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760/140 "2007-07-09T06:59:14Z")
Re the _Star Wars_ movies: The Jedi Knights are total morons. They teach all their secrets to an Eric Cartman of the future, and throw away the whole galaxy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-were-supposed-to-like-these-characters-why-are-they-such-tools/409760.md?page=8)