# If/when Trump and Musk fall out, what will it be over? The results? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, elon-musk\ **Created:** [February 15, 2025, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346 "2025-02-15T09:08:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/181 "2025-04-26T14:13:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > We say things like “no research whatsoever” and “none whatsoever”, but never “zero whatsoever”. Actually, ‘zero shits whatsoever’ and ‘zero f\_\_\_s whatsoever’ are fairly common. I don’t know who Sam Federman is, but he appears to be someone who writes and podcasts about college basketball. He used ‘no research whatsoever’ in a Xit/Tweet. Movies have been said to have ‘zero plot whatsoever’. Perhaps the construction is uncommon in Canada, but I’ve never heard anyone criticise it until now. Think of it as a ‘double intensifier’. ‘Whatsoever’ is an intensifier. Using ‘zero’ for ‘no’ pre-intensifies it. It’s like saying ‘I do really-truley-cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die no market research whatsoever.’ ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/182 "2025-04-26T15:07:53Z")
Well, we’re drifting off topic here, but just to address your points … > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Actually, ‘zero shits whatsoever’ and ‘zero f\_\_\_s whatsoever’ are fairly common. Vulgar slang isn’t meant to be grammatical, and sometimes a novel or awkward construction is the whole point. Musk was speaking in a straightforward style that betrayed a lack of fluency (or lack of care). > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > He used ‘no research whatsoever’ in a Xit/Tweet. Nothing wrong with that. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Movies have been said to have ‘zero plot whatsoever’. Again, that’s the awkwardness that Musk evinced. **[This wiki article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_item)** on negative and positive polarity items might help clarify the issue. Another example of an NPI is “at all”. One might say “I did not like that move at all” but never “I liked that movie at all”, because an NPI always intensifies a negation. “Zero” is not a negation even if it’s semantically similar to “no”; it’s a number, and no one conscious of speaking well would intensify it with an NPI. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/183 "2025-04-26T15:27:39Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > > He used ‘no research whatsoever’ in a Xit/Tweet. > > Nothing wrong with that. Correction: He said ‘ **zero** research whatsoever.’ I mis-typed. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Again, that’s the awkwardness that Musk evinced. Again, his usage is not particularly egregious. The phrase is in common use. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/184 "2025-04-26T16:34:15Z")
I didn’t hear Musk use the phrase, but “zero whatsoever” may require a native level of cadence and pronunciation to come off as a purposely used idiom and not as a an awkward phrase. I also don’t think it really fits a serious conversation unless the speaker indicates via tone of voice, etc., that s/he’s shifting to a different mode of speech. Moreover, native speakers don’t just use stock phrase, new and trendy phrases, and other things they’ve learned from others; they also make up their own idioms on the fly. Clever speakers can make a lot of things work through emphasis, tone of voice, pauses, etc.; awkward speakers like Musk less so. Even though “zero whatsoever” isn’t something that Musk made up, the same delivery requirements apply, as the phrase isn’t so common as to strike the average listener as an idiom or stock phrase (in my experience, at least). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/185 "2025-04-26T16:38:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The phrase is in common use. One could argue forever about what “common use” means. I’ve already clearly indicated, with cites, why it’s awkward and non-standard usage. The reality is that when it comes to language, some people are stupid, others are careless, and judging by all the evidence, Musk is probably both. Incidentally, Google Ngram naturally has tons of hits on phrases like “none whatsoever”. On “zero whatsoever”? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/186 "2025-04-27T13:16:19Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > find themselves at loggerheads over the fundamentalist desire for a Christian Nationalist theocracy versus the anarcho-capitalism of the tech broligarchs. Steve Bannon already called this out at the start of the term (though the threat he sees is of “techno feudalism”). But it seems this still hasn’t come to the point of the one agenda so badly interferring with the other as to go beyond clashes of media personalities. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/187 "2025-04-27T13:56:07Z")
It kind of is over [H-1B visa immigrants](https://apnews.com/article/trump-maga-immigration-visas-musk-91ab17e141cc9764fb18b8bc862c84dc) which gives the techbroligarchs access to foreign talent (the ‘good immigrants’ that they can treat like indentured servants) but which Bannon, Miller, et al dislike because in their view the only ‘good immigrant’ is one that can be persuaded to ‘self-deport’ by threats and intimidation, and the rest should be rounded up and sent to Louisiana because apparently facilities in that state are somehow not within purview of federal courts. And there has been some conflict over tariffs (expect more of that) as the ‘trade war’ that the Trump regime has elected to start with the entire rest of the world for…reasons…threatens access to advanced computing technology and other resources needed by the tech sector. But the factions haven’t started openly conflicting with each other over other major issues because they are largely in concert with tearing the administrative state down and alienating European allies. I expect that will change as people realize what ‘Christian Nationalism’ actually means. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/188 "2025-05-21T12:46:52Z")
> **[Trump wipes Elon Musk’s name from Truth Social as GOP insiders say he’s...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-elon-musk-truth-social-mentions-b2753786.html)** > > President Donald Trump was posting about Musk on Truth Social an average of four times per week in February and March It may have ended with a whimper rather than a bang. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/189 "2025-05-21T13:52:51Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > [Trump has wiped Elon Musk’s name from Truth Social as GOP insiders admit he’s ‘finished, done, gone’ | The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-elon-musk-truth-social-mentions-b2753786.html) > > It may have ended with a whimper rather than a bang . Wisconsin voters may have the saved the greater U.S. public from further Musk incursions. From your link: > Musk has stepped back from front-line politics since proving [unpopular with the public](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-elon-musk-doge-wisconsin-b2726247.html), according to [polling](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_wmD8f2B.pdf), and he faced ridicule over the outcome of the [Wisconsin Supreme Court race](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-spending-wisconsin-supreme-court-race-b2725855.html)last month. > > “He’s finished, done, gone. He polls terribly. People hate him,” an anonymous GOP operative told [_Politico_](https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/19/elon-musk-disappears-trump-world-00355313). “He’d go to Wisconsin thinking he can buy people’s votes, wear the cheese hat, act like a 9-year-old. … It doesn’t work. It’s offensive to people.” Had Musk successfully bought that Wisconsin Supreme Court election, there’s no doubt Musk would’ve retained his exalted position in the Trump administration. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/190 "2025-05-21T15:57:26Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > It may have ended with a whimper rather than a bang. Musk has achieved what he wanted (for now, at least) in terms of getting access to government systems and scraping data, and [even got Trump to do an advert for his shitty cars](https://youtube.com/shorts/8Czbc-jvMnQ?si=6j-VLL9uRz-hFK8x). But he’s far from ‘gone’; the media didn’t seem to make much if it but he was in the background of Trump’s Mideast tour and has been making pitches to members of the Senate Defense Appropriations Subcommittee for tens of billions of dollars of DoD funds for SpaceX including ‘Golden Dome’ and the [truly idiotic point-to-point global cargo delivery system](https://spacenews.com/spacex-wins-102-million-air-force-contract-to-demonstrate-technologies-for-point-to-point-space-transportation/). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/191 "2025-05-21T18:50:44Z")
I’d go a step further and say they both got _most_ of what they wanted. Trump can say he did something (all the “waste” cut) and simultaneously throw any blame at overreach or unpopular cuts on Elon, who is a ready-made archvillain. Musk got attention, funding for several of his projects, and god-knows-what total amount of citizen information to do with as he thinks best, but is done and can move on to what he considers important to his technocracy. Of course, almost everyone else got screwed, but that’s SOP for both of those individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/192 "2025-05-21T19:01:55Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Musk has achieved what he wanted (for now, at least) in terms of getting access to government systems and scraping data, Essentially my thoughts. Not to mention kneecapping agencies that might keep an eye on his efforts. I suspect he profited (over time) well over what he paid. And I couldn’t believe him whining about having received threats. He’s the richest guy in the world, able to buy whatever security he wishes, as well as enjoying the cloak of federal protection. So some of his cars got vandalized and people said nasty things about him? While he GLEEFULLY endangered 10s of thousands of people’s livelihood and financial security, and took actions ending government programs which definitely are going to result is SOME deaths. Fuck him! ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/193 "2025-05-21T20:17:28Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@Odesio](#): > > > > [Trump has wiped Elon Musk’s name from Truth Social as GOP insiders admit he’s ‘finished, done, gone’ | The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-elon-musk-truth-social-mentions-b2753786.html) > > > > It may have ended with a whimper rather than a bang . > > Wisconsin voters may have the saved the greater U.S. public from further Musk incursions. From your link: > > > Musk has stepped back from front-line politics since proving [unpopular with the public](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-elon-musk-doge-wisconsin-b2726247.html), according to [polling](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_wmD8f2B.pdf), and he faced ridicule over the outcome of the [Wisconsin Supreme Court race](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-spending-wisconsin-supreme-court-race-b2725855.html)last month. > > > > “He’s finished, done, gone. He polls terribly. People hate him,” an anonymous GOP operative told [_Politico_](https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/19/elon-musk-disappears-trump-world-00355313). “He’d go to Wisconsin thinking he can buy people’s votes, wear the cheese hat, act like a 9-year-old. … It doesn’t work. It’s offensive to people.” > > Had Musk successfully bought that Wisconsin Supreme Court election, there’s no doubt Musk would’ve retained his exalted position in the Trump administration. Not only did Elon’s candidate lose, but he got trounced, to the point that even Trump and his minions couldn’t claim with a straight face that the election was stolen. And if there’s one thing Trump can’t stand, it is the stink of loserdom. But as Stranger\_On\_A\_Train said the Republican Party isn’t quite ready to quit him yet, or rather they don’t want to forgo his largesse. They’ve just wised up to the fact that it’s better to let him do his thing behind the scenes, instead of putting him front and center on the campaign trail, where he’s likely to act like a jackass and turn off voters. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/194 "2025-05-21T20:23:02Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > where he’s likely to act like a jackass “is likely to”? Please: “will” As just mentioned: > [@ParallelLines](#): > > that’s SOP for both of those individuals. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/195 "2025-05-21T22:53:43Z")
Since he’s said he doesn’t want to spend any more money on politics, I guess his threats to primary any Republican who doesn’t totally support Trump’s agenda is no longer applicable. Will this cause anyone to reconsider their support? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/196 "2025-05-28T06:21:23Z")
Isn’t this adorable? Elon thinks deficit reduction is a real thing that Republicans actually take seriously! > **[Elon Musk says Trump's spending bill 'undermines' DOGE's work](https://www.yahoo.com/news/finance/news/elon-musk-says-trumps-spending-022004321.html)** > > Elon Musk said he was disappointed by President Donald Trump's spending bill and that it undermines the work of DOGE. There’s no deficit on Mars, Elon! Maybe you should go there while you still have money left. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/197 "2025-05-29T07:05:31Z")
And he’s off (well, I suppose “government efficiency” means eliminating his job): > **[Elon Musk bids farewell to White House but says Doge will continue](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz9y4exj822o)** > > Musk's exit comes after he criticised the legislative centrepiece of the president's agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/198 "2025-05-29T12:46:15Z")
I like how he says it is “the bureaucracy’s” fault that DOGE was not more successful. There is all manner of possibility for reducing governmental waste and increasing efficiency, but no part of DOGE’s efforts were even given a cloak of attempting that. And the recent budget bill makes clear that it is not any sort of concern of Rs. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/199 "2025-05-30T14:42:32Z")
Yes. You shrink government by passing laws that shrink government. The whole thing was a stunt for headlines so people would ignore that 1) Trump wants to grow the government even larger, and 2) to do so to have enough government agents that he can create a police state strong enough to control the movement of millions. What happens to the policing organization he creates, when all the brown people are gone? Posse Commitatus was passed to ensure that state sovereignty wasn’t at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346/200 "2025-05-30T21:39:02Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > There’s no deficit on Mars, Elon! Maybe you should go there while you still have money left. There’s an oxygen deficit, but one hit of K, and I’m sure Leon will come up with one of his brilliant ideas and survive! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-when-trump-and-musk-fall-out-what-will-it-be-over-the-results/1014346.md?page=11)