# If World War II hadn't happened... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 5, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448 "2014-12-05T21:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/21 "2014-12-07T01:31:47Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Interesting thread but all speculation of course. One thing that is not generally realized is that there was a second depression in 1937. What happened was the “adults” prevailed on Roosevelt to try to balance the budget. When he did that, the second dip happened. . . . > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > It’s impossible to prove or disprove this assertion. Obviously, alternate history conjecture is beyond any conceivable proof. However, as for the benefits of the New Deal, read **Hari Seldon** ’s post. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > On another topic, I don’t think atom bombs would have come without war. It took a massive effort, not to mention expense, and would not have happened without wartime necessity. Atomic power? Maybe, but not for a long time. In my opinion, once the concept of nuclear weapons was demonstrated, most of the big industrialized powers would begin investing, maybe not massive funds, but fairly significant sums. And since they would be operating without the massive secrecy of the Manhattan Project, everybody would have a pretty good idea where everyone else stood. You’d end up with an arms race, not unlike the space race. Rocketry, too, would be well behind the timeline we enjoyed in our real history, but it would move along, slowly and steadily. Eventually, someone like Arthur C. Clarke would come along and demonstrate the benefits of having communications and weather satellites. We’d still end up with MAD and MIRVs, and, quite possibly, without knowing how bad things could be, a Cuban Missile Crisis (Congo, Korea, Iceland, whatever) that spirals out of control and we all fry… Who knows? This might actually be the best of all possible worlds! ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/22 "2014-12-07T02:07:02Z")
the military surplus market would have taken a hit. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/23 "2014-12-08T07:10:13Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > … how much longer would the Great Depression have lasted before the US economy began to grow dramatically again, and what do you think would the lasting impact have been on the economy 70 years later? No this isn’t a homework assignment. Feel free to speculate to your heart’s content. Well, of course the only way to grow the domestic economy is to spend enormous amounts on logistics fighting a war on the other side of the planet. Oh, wait, no. The USA economy benefited from internal mobilization. A global war gave the martial types and jingoists reason to come on board. But eventually there could have been another war, or a civil war, or massive internal socialization of the economy–or all three. And the possible wars might have been less likely to lead to growth than further socialization. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/24 "2014-12-08T08:09:01Z")
I think the work on racial issues would have slowed. Back in the day many neighborhoods had laws keeping out Jews. Exposing the Nazi holocaust about stopped Jewish discrimination. It was because of WW2 that the armed forces later integrated. Without that integration their would not have been the black “war hero” of Joe Louis which lead to Jackie Robinson and the 1947 integration of baseball. That would have taken more years. Now I’m not sure about gender issues but many women got jobs outside the home for the first time which coincided with more women going to college and starting careers than ever before. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/25 "2014-12-08T08:23:47Z")
That is an interesting and provocative angle. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/26 "2014-12-08T13:09:54Z")
We might be a much more urbanized population. It was veterans coming home from the war who wanted to buy their own house and had the means to do so through government programs. This essentially created the market for the modern suburban housing system and the infrastructure to support it. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/27 "2014-12-08T15:36:42Z")
WW2 also changed alot of morals. For example million of GI’s had there first experience with a prostitute or had flings with nurses and foreign women and many wives back home were also unfaithful. Thats why there were so many divorces in the years afterwards. Also millions were exposed to cultures and ways foreign to some kid off an Iowa farm and many did not want to go back. And the experiences. Think of the millions of old vets who talk about the things they were involved with in the war. For many it was the high point of their lives doing things like storming the beaches at Normandy or Iwo Jima or witnessing the Japanese surrender. Also back home nearly every family had a relative in uniform and almost everyone was working in a war related industry. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/28 "2014-12-08T16:38:12Z")
Well maybe instead of military spending being the main economic thrust of the US government we would be spending all that money on infrastructure. We’d have modern schools, hospitals, and a kick ass internet and no bridges falling down. Of course we’d have no G.I. Bill and no baby boom. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/29 "2014-12-08T17:05:39Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > On another topic, I don’t think atom bombs would have come without war. It took a massive effort, not to mention expense, and would not have happened without wartime necessity. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/30 "2014-12-09T03:18:13Z")
Central and Eastern Europe would be much much more ethnically diverse. The USSR would have imploded much sooner. The Imperial Powers would still to some degree be Imperial Powers. There would be no nuclear weaponry. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/31 "2014-12-09T12:19:34Z")
But without atomic weapons would we have seen more and larger conventional wars? Plus atomic weapons were not the only WMD’s out there. They still could create radioactive waste and chemical and biological weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/32 "2014-12-10T08:26:37Z")
There would have been a lot more really crappy (old, tired) merchant ships being used for the 20 years following. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448/33 "2014-12-10T11:15:13Z")
The effect of WWII on media and popular culture is frequently overlooked but it totally and utterly changed the direction of these things. Radio ownership doubled from 40% to 80% in the US during the 1930’s and, although I can’t find the figures, it grew possibly even faster in Europe in the same period. People bought radios in great numbers because of course they wanted to keep track on developments in the war. Once the war finished people didn’t throw their radio sets away, and millions turned them from news services to the increasing number of music and entertainment stations that were springing up. But the war also had it’s affect on the generational differences. It is no coincidence in my opinion (and in the opinion of many scholars) that the first generation in history that consumed in large numbers different music than their parents was the generation that didn’t experience the war. These baby boomers listened to rock and pop, whilst those that lived through the war generally did not. As well as this, in Europe especially, there were large numbers of people who’s attitude to religion radically changed. This affected their entire world outlook. Existentialism grew in mainland Europe (which had suffered the most trauma from the war) - god was dead to many. This has it’s affect on art, music, literature, fashion etc etc etc. Television naturally followed radio into peoples homes. Let’s not forget that computers were also honed and developed hugely in WWII as were things like aviation, radar, encryption, automobiles, and a thousand other technologies. The world would be a very different place without WWII. You can probably re-write all post-war popular musical history for a start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-world-war-ii-hadnt-happened/706448.md?page=1)