When the vast majority of Irish immigrants entered the country, the notion of making it illegal to move in times of peace hadn’t been invented. Having crossed more borders than I care to count (always legally), I sure wouldn’t mind if we could forget said notion.
From a song that’s currently on the hit lists in Latin America (don’t remember the singer but he’s Mexican):
…God gives us all a universal visa at birth, so how come we need papers to show we’re not from Saturn…
But I’m still going to call them illegal aliens. Do you care nothing about the social, political, and economic problems that massive illegal immigration causes? Or are you only concerned about making sure that everybody uses politically correct terminology so that nobody’s feelings ever get hurt?
English translation: “Get out of the way, gringos, we want your land.”
Are you high? What on God’s green earth do we owe anyone who isn’t an American or a legal immigrant? Our ancestors (yours and mine) worked to build this country(I believe this argument applies to all countries across the board) in part for their descendants. That’s not a geographical accident, that hard work and planning, and you want to just throw all that away…why? Because you feel guilty that there are poor people in other countries? There is opportunity here, but if you want to take advantage of it, there are legal ways in which you can do so. If you don’t follow them, you should be deported immediately and barred from ever legally immigrating. Your argument makes no more sense that excusing a bank robber’s actions because he needed money and the bank had lots. If you want to come here, I’ll welcome you with open arms, as long as you do so legally. If you break the law and illegally immigrate, revealing yourself to be nothing more than a thief of my and all other legal resident’s resources, I got no problem with dumping you back into what ever godforsaken slum you came from.
I knew someone would take me answering a question as me making a statement. Someone asked why a poster used quote marks around the word illegal. I answered to the best of my knowledge why the poster probably did that. Now you want to fucking fight, because you think the poster shouldn’t put quote marks around the word, maybe? Nobody showed up at your house with jackboots on, demanding your papers and warning you to choose your words more carefully in the future, so untwist your fucking panties and get out of my face.
In other words, you can’t come up with a rational response, so you’re going to throw a tantrum instead.
If Mexico deports the illegals that they catch entering Mexico, if Mexico has implemented plans to seal the southern border, why can’t we do the same?
Let me not attempt to disavow all knowledge of this heinous crime. I agree that putting quote marks around illegal is appropriate in order to highlight the absurdity of the term. I don’t give a damn if anybody doesn’t do it, I just support those who choose to. It’s a minor rhetorical point in a complicated issue, but despite the thrashings and whinings of the PC Backlash Brigade, language really is one of the important tools of change.
On preview, I see the jackass has brayed in my general direction again. I guess it does want to fight after all. That’s cute.
Illegal immigration or constipation. Damn, we’re in a tight spot.
Problem as I see it and yes it’s an oversimplified version:
A lot of people south of the Rio Grande don’t believe me when I tell them that there are such things as racism, unemployment and sexism north of the Rio Grande. Smoke in their eyes.
These people have been told, repeatedly, that going to gringoland will give them a better life; not that it “may”, that it “will”. They have not been told how to do so legally, many are under the impression that there is no way to get into the US legally. The Spanish government ran a HUGE publicity campaign in several Andean countries a few years ago, explaining to the people there how to apply for legal papers for Spain; the campaign continues more low-key; Latin American residents in Spain are asked (by the government and non-government organizations that work with immigrants) to tell their relatives about the legal routes and their advantages; Spaniards living in Latin America are asked to do the same. The message is “we’re happy that you want to come, but we want to make sure that your rights are as protected as those of our citizens; this will not be so if you arrive illegally.” Maybe the US government could do something similar.
(Having a similar campaign in Africa, our other big source of migrants, is more complicated)
You’re behaving like an angry little child. Good bye.
Wow. I was not aware that so many Latins have such a naive view of the United States. I withdraw my previous harsh comment.
Can you please provide a cite for the basic fact? Or are you just slappin’ your lips together?
I’d be more sympathetic to this argument if you yourself had done all this work. I’m not really into the whole “my granddaddy worked hard / was wealthy so I should get more benefits than other people” argument.
However, I do see your point. I do agree that the granddaddy in question has earned the fruits of his labour, and if he decides the fruits of that labour is a comfortable life for his descendants then that is obviously his right.
Yet it still seems completely random to me that two people of exactly the same temperment and work ethic have completely different oppurtunities. Unfortunately, it appears it will always be the case, but I cannot understand standing up and saying that is the way it should be. I don’t see why if two people are willing to work for money one gets labelled a thief of the other’s resources. It is this massive sense of personal entitlement that I see in your post that I object to. If you are better than the other person, and more entitled, prove it! Be a harder worker, or smarter at what you do.
I do not believe anyone owes anyone anything. I think it was clear from my post that I was not neccesarily in favor of “throwing it all away”. In fact, I am completely in support of strict immigration enforcement (although I would probably set the bar for legal immigration lower than you would). This is not because I think someone coming here illegally is behaving immorally, but out of practical and economic concerns. I believe it is in United States best interest to control the borders and know exactly who is coming into the country, and illegal immgration is destructive in terms of these goals.
[QUOTE=betenoirThe basic fact is if it weren’t for “illegals” getting paid (being illegal) much less that a legal wage, fruit (Just as an example) would be 2X or more then it is now.
[/QUOTE]
False. The increase would be 6% in the short term, 3% in th elong term. I coudl live with an extra nickel per dollar of my fruit prices.
Illegals normally get paid the same as legal braceros. This is for a VERY good reason- if you are cauught hiring Illegals, the “I didn’t know” defense is pretty golden. But if you’re paying the illgeals half of what your paying your legal workers- you go to jail. Very bad. Although there are a few rare isolated cases of illegals being held in what come pretty close to slavery- they are unusual and noteworthy. The pay is pretty damn good for a unskilled worker- OTOH, the work is damn hard.
see this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6957156&highlight=braceros#post6957156
and this cite:
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters91bf
"A 1996 study by an Iowa State agricultural economist concluded that “The removal of illegal workers from the seasonal agricultural workforce would increase the summer-fall supermarket prices of fresh fruits and vegetables by about 6 percent in the short run and 3 percent in the intermediate term.”
Nava, all that’s well and good, but what about the fact that it’s the Mexican government that is actively encouraging illegal immigration to the U.S.? Don’t you think they should be held responsible not only for painting an unrealistically rosy picture of life in these United States, but also for actively assisting many of their citizens to emmigrate illegally? Money coming back into Mexico from illegals abroad is the second largest source of foreign income that Mexico had. Couple that with the fact that Mexico has a huge overpopulation problem, and it’s win/win for Mexico to push as much excess population into the U.S. as they can, even to the point of using their army to take illegals to points where their border crossing will be unopposed and by distributing pamplets that tell people exactly how to avoid the USBP. You may be right that perception drives a lot of people north…but who exactly is creating these false images?
Can’t address my points then? Right.
True
True
Except for the people of Iraq and Kuwait, apparently.
I’ve heard it a lot, mainly by people trying to justify the way they treat illegal workers. It scares consumers into opposing helping them. Sort of like:
“American Produce: Cheap and Plentiful Thanks to the Exploitation of the Most Desperate People We Can Find!”
It’s BS, as far as I’m concerned. I was not aware that betenoir was in the agribusiness industry, though.
Irrelevant.