If you are a male who thinks rape is about sex, not power

Yup, that’s what I was shooting for.

And, as Bryan Ekers points out, should we include statutory rape in our “rape” Venn diagram? And, as he also points out, there are grey areas: just how much alcohol are we talking? How do we fit gradations of dimished-capacity consent on a Venn diagram?

If there’s any rape that’s about sex and not power, then it’s no longer just about the overlap.

Fantasizing about something does not mean you want to have it happen. Sometimes the attraction of a fantasy is that it is wrong so even thinking about it gives a thrill. People go to horror movies or whatever the kind of movie Saw is, but I think that nearly all do not want to experience what happens in the movie. People who go on roller coasters and other amusement part rides for the most part don’t really want to fall uncontrollably, but the sensation that is happening for a few seconds is sought after.

Sometimes theft is about power, such as the asshole that eats someone else’s lunch from the company fridge because they know it ticks the person off, to grade schoolers grabbing someone’s hat and playing keep away and then never giving the hat back.

I do. But instead of rape, I prefer to use scary camp fire stories.

No because she’d cry and stuff and I’d feel terrible.

The presumption behind this question is asinine in that it assumes that hardcore sexual lust, in and of itself is not sufficient to make a man throw caution to the winds and take a woman sexually, and that there has to be some complex power dynamic behind it all. Let me assure you that this is not the case and that if a man is horny enough, and there are no social or legal repercussions for doing so, that a woman would be at significant risk of being raped.

I really think that many women (evidenced by this thread) have no real notion of how strong the sexual drive is in men, especially young men. The mores and sanctions of human society are the main things that keep the pussies of young women unmolested. Most rational men fear punishment and sanctions more than they desire sex and have the impulse control necessary to make that determination. Some don’t and these are the rapists. Note, however, how many “good” men will turn to rape if (as in war) or other chaotic social situations, the opportunity arises.

Rape can be about power, but that isn’t necessarily always the case.

Oh, and fuck shit piss santorum.

I am on the rent to own plan myself…

So, how did that relationship turn out? Did you wind up going for pizza?

It’s like the other poster said about robbery. Some people steal because it’s a power thing. Others steal because they just want the stuff. I think some thefts are about power and some aren’t; it has no bearing on why I don’t steal. Ditto for rape; I figure some rapes are about power, and some are about sex, but so what?

As others have said, OP, your OP is idiotic. If we apply your logic, and rape is about power and not sex, then anyone who wants power must be willing to rape. The slogans might equally be “Black rape!” or “Rape to the people!”

My google-fu is weak, but years ago I came across a scathing deconstruction of the “rape is not about sex” myth. It seems that the myth is based on some interviews with dudes in prison for violent stranger-rape, the kind of rapists for whom rape is least about sex. It turns out the people interviewing them were looking for a clear answer, and prisoners often will say whatever they think the people in power want to hear, hoping it’ll lead to earlier parole or some such.

When date-rapists, child-rapists, etc. are interviewed, the rape is most certainly about sex. Power comes into it because the rapist doesn’t give a shit whether their victim is a partner or a victim, and they have enough power that they aren’t forced to care. For them, rape is as much about power as turning on a porn movie would be about power. Both sex acts are contingent on their power over the tool they’re using to get off. The fact that the tool in one case is a living breathing person really doesn’t matter so much to them.

And that idiotic myth is dangerous. If we have such a tremendous misunderstanding of the causes of rape, how are we to prevent it? It’d be like trying to fight AIDS if you believe it’s caused by poor nutrition.

It’s like if there was debate about whether bank robbers rob banks for the money or for the power they can wield during the robbery.

Some people might say bank robbers do it simply for the money, while others might say they do it simply for the power.

If we followed the OP’s “reasoning”, people who say that bank robbers do it for the money should all go out and rob banks.

Yes, people like money, and one way to get it is via robbing a bank, but that doesn’t mean that people who like money all dream about robbing banks.

Yes, men like sex, and one way to get it is via rape, but that doesn’t mean that men who like sex all dream about raping someone.

Rape’s about rape really. If it’s just power over someone you want, you hit them with a stick. If you just want sex you take someone out to dinner, be really charming and that, or just have a wank or something.

I have fantasied about raping all sorts of things. I have a pretty liberal mind. My girlfriend enjoys the thrill of ‘being raped’ in the setting of a bedroom (so it’s all let’s pretend), so I’m guessing she fantasises about it too. I don’t particularly enjoy actually doing it like that, prefer a more intimate thing. She also likes the idea of raping me.

Interestingly if you put ‘top sexual fantasies’ into google it ranks quite high amongst women, apparently. Not that that means anything. I guess I’m just trying to make the point that it’s not just a man thing.

I think the perpetuation of the “it’s just about power” nonsense comes from (to a degree) the desire to completely remove or otherwise abstract the act of rape from any sexual connotations, and any consideration by the rape victim that the rape was in some way their fault or responsibility.

On the face of it this makes some sense as a therapeutic method by which the rape victim can get past or handle the destructiveness of self blame and related feelings of shame that they somehow brought it on themselves which is a not uncommon reaction to being raped. However, when you take this “it’s really all about power” therapeutic paradigm and try to flog as a model for rape in the real world the problem is that male on female rape is quite often very much about sex for the sake of sex, not some dominance exercise.

Google “rape fantasy.” GL HF.

I’m not sure how reliable they are but I am aware of a number of polls where men answer this very question. Quite a few say yes. And even more will agree if you reword it to not include the word rape, just put in a euphemismistic definition that is rape.

When that politician talks of rape, is it in the criminal or tort context?

I recall the “Rape is not about sex, it is about power” meme being promoted by radical feminists in the 1970s. Along similar lines, I also recall separatist feminists promoting “All heterosexual sex is about power” in the context of subjugation of women. Unfortuantely, a lot of men at that time were gob smacked by feminism, for they were still in the Ozzie and Harriet mode of gender relations, social patterns, and power patterns, so a lot of men took the extreme forms of feminism to be representative of feminism. Fortunately, feminism has survived the radical feminist and separatist feminist ideologies.

Actually, I fantasize about raping men. And no, I’d never do anything that wasn’t consensual.

And yes, it’s about sex. And it’s also about power. And control. And vulnerability. And lust. And sadism. And masochism. And sometimes even love.

No, but I have fantasized about being raped by a woman. An athletic powerful woman. Serena Williams for example. To be raped by a weakling just doesn’t work.
Perhaps that is where this notion of rape is all about power is concerned. It is in the perspective of the rapee rather than the raper who has another goal to achieve.

And the line was common in the 80’s and the 90’s as well.

No; they were gobsmacked because that was pretty much all you saw from American feminism for a long time. “Men are all rapists and that’s all they are”, “Of course he’s a child molestor; he’s a father”; Russian feminists storming as a group out of an international feminist convention calling the American feminists “Stalinists”. I was around then, and what you call the “extreme forms” of feminism were the mainstream of feminism. Men were “gobsmacked” because pretty much all they saw was that sort of feminism; the feminists who disagreed were either very few or very quiet. Including men like myself, who never had any “Ozzie and Harriet” expectations.

Survived? Barely. How many women will admit to being feminists? I don’t mean how many women believe in equal rights for women; one legacy of that period is that the word “feminist” was largely divorced from the concept of equality for women. I think that most people, male or female who hear the word “feminist” will think of hostility towards men long before they think of equal rights.

hi, not able to read thru the whole thread, so sorry, but I wanted to throw this thought out there:

My frustration is not so much defining rape as defining sex.

Sex is something you do WITH someone, not TO someone.

If y’all (however many of whatever gender, given ability to give mature consent) are doing the actvity together, then it’s sex. Kinda like dancing. You wouldn’t want to “dance” with someone by manipulating them onto the floor when they don’t really want to be there, right? That would be no fun.

If one (or more) of the people out there is there 'cause you coerced, tricked, inebriated, threatened, or downright forced them out there, it’s not really dancing, right?

Yes, it’s still dancing. If someone said “the dictator forced them to dance at gunpoint” everyone would understand what that meant.

Rape is still sex; thus the term “consensual sex”, which means sex that isn’t rape.