# If you are carrying water for Donald Trump, even now - especially now - kindly go fuck yourself **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710 "2017-05-16T02:20:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/441 "2017-05-23T23:37:34Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > To be specific, I think you hold a lot of positions right now that will be far out of the mainstream within a decade. If holding non-mainstream positions were the equivalent of being “a jackass”, most of the posters on this MB would qualify. > [@](#): > > As in 25% or lower approval rating. I think Trump will be hugely disgraced figure a decade from now, the same way Nixon was. You will look just as bad as Nixon’s defenders during Watergate look now. You are on the losing side of history with this. Oy. You think he’s a Trump supporter? Only in the sense that: The first rule of Trump opponents is to never defend Trump against any charge, even if the charge is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/442 "2017-05-23T23:40:53Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > To be specific, I think you hold a lot of positions right now that will be far out of the mainstream within a decade. As in 25% or lower approval rating. I think Trump will be hugely disgraced figure a decade from now, the same way Nixon was. You will look just as bad as Nixon’s defenders during Watergate look now. You are on the losing side of history with this. Are you supposing that I support Trump now? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/443 "2017-05-23T23:44:01Z")
I’m getting the sense that for some folks on this MB, it’s not enough to oppose Trump. You must swear a “loyalty oath” to never correct anyone if they say something negative about Trump even if that thing is factually incorrect. The irony burns. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/444 "2017-05-23T23:50:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m getting the sense that for some folks on this MB, it’s not enough to oppose Trump. You must swear a “loyalty oath” to never correct anyone if they say something negative about Trump even if that thing is factually incorrect. The irony burns. I apologize. There’s something that rubs me the wrong way about Bricker’s narrow, legalistic focus on whether what Trump did is technically illegal. To quote [David Frum](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/the-danger-of-letting-trump-politicize-the-fbi/527562/), a conservative critic of Trump: > [@David Frum](#): > > American political culture is highly legalistic. It tends to have difficulty acknowledging any third category between “legal” and “illegal” (except, perhaps, “unpopular”). But if there is nothing in positive law to prevent the president from firing directors who embarrass him and nominating agreeable politicians to replace them, then the United States will have taken an important step away from the rule of law if a president were to do it and get away with it. The debate whether Trump can do this may provide an interesting question on some future law school exam. For now, everyone who respects law should be insisting that whether he “can” or “cannot”—his modern predecessors never did, and he must not be allowed to deviate from their precedents. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/445 "2017-05-23T23:59:27Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I apologize. There’s something that rubs me the wrong way about Bricker’s narrow, legalistic focus on whether what Trump did is technically illegal. To quote [David Frum](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/the-danger-of-letting-trump-politicize-the-fbi/527562/), a conservative critic of Trump: If you follow the flow of the entire thread, you’ll see you’re missing something. We can think something is wrong, bad, terrible, even impeachable, but acknowledge that it’s not illegal. And that something might be impeachable, in theory, but won’t happen under the present circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/446 "2017-05-24T00:05:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you follow the flow of the entire thread, you’ll see you’re missing something. We can think something is wrong, bad, terrible, even impeachable, but acknowledge that it’s not illegal. And that something might be impeachable, in theory, but won’t happen under the present circumstances. Under our present Congress, sadly it’s unlikely. Unless there’s a video of Vladimir Putin personally handing Trump a giant sack of money with a dollar sign on it. Even, then, probably not. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/447 "2017-05-24T00:12:50Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Under our present Congress, sadly it’s unlikely. Unless there’s a video of Vladimir Putin personally handing Trump a giant sack of money with a dollar sign on it. Even, then, probably not. :smack: This is essentially what I have been saying. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/448 "2017-05-24T11:22:13Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There are pointing out flaws. I will agree that Hilary is a flawed human being, like the rest of us. > > He was not pointing out her flaws, he was just calling her “the evil bitch hillary” I can write a great wall of text that consumes 100 hours of my time, or I can very easily sum up her characteristics by writing “the evil bitch Hillary.” There’s no reason to parrot the hundreds of points that contribute to that description. I could also list 100 things wrong with the Idiot-in-Chief, but it’s a lot easier to write “Idiot-in-Chief.” And while I know Gary Johnson had his faults, too, I can accept other people’s summations in lieu of reading the same details ad nauseum. The thing is, the world isn’t coming to an end, despite who or who isn’t “carrying water” for our dear, esteemed POTUS, Mr. Donald something Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/449 "2017-05-24T12:37:25Z")
This pit is for Jenny Beth Martin, leader of the the Tea Party Patriots: Screw you for being just like Mike Pence. This ass wipe is telling people that spending cuts are going to help them because her dream boat, Loser Donald Trump, is going to fix everything and besides, you can just work harder to get yourself out of poverty. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/450 "2017-05-24T12:56:15Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I can write a great wall of text that consumes 100 hours of my time, or I can very easily sum up her characteristics by writing “the evil bitch Hillary.” There’s no reason to parrot the hundreds of points that contribute to that description. > > I could also list 100 things wrong with the Idiot-in-Chief, but it’s a lot easier to write “Idiot-in-Chief.” > > And while I know Gary Johnson had his faults, too, I can accept other people’s summations in lieu of reading the same details ad nauseum. > > The thing is, the world isn’t coming to an end, despite who or who isn’t “carrying water” for our dear, esteemed POTUS, Mr. Donald something Trump. There is a huge difference between calling someone an idiot and a bitch. An idiot is an actual thing, while a bitch is just an insult. It doesn’t actually tell us anything. You mention Trump’s an idiot, and we know pretty well what you’re talking about. The only people I’ve ever heard calling Clinton a bitch are misogynists, and I hope that’s not what you mean. Unfortunately, I can’t think of any legitimate criticism of Clinton that would be fairly characterized as being a bitch. It would be a decent insult of Trump, but Clinton seems to mostly treat people well. And, well, it is weird that you use “evil” for Clinton but not for Trump. No matter how evil you think Clinton is, Trump is objectively worse. That’s where the whole “you are partly to blame for not trying to stop him” comes in. No, you’re not as bad as someone who voted for him. But you still failed to do anything that had an actual chance to stop him. And you had the ability. And while the world isn’t ending, our democracy is in a bad place, if there is a president who seems to be above the law. Even if Trump himself doesn’t do anything, the lack of any ability to stop him means that the next guy can. Democracies fail if there ceases to be a check on their rule. Just because the world isn’t ending doesn’t mean things aren’t bad. That’s why we want impeachment. That would fix the problem BEFORE it gets so bad that we can’t fix it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/451 "2017-05-24T12:59:30Z")
I find myself agreeing with the spirit of David Frum’s remarks but I wanted to pick nits just a little and say that, speaking for myself, I have never advocated the impeachment of Trump merely for firing a director who embarrassed him or for firing a director because he can – he can do that. I don’t think that’s an impeachable offense. It’s terribly unwise and that kind of behavior will almost surely bite a president in the butt over the long term, but he’s clearly within his constitutional powers to do so. I don’t find fault with a partisan congress for huddling to protect a president who’s doing something that is merely unpopular or unwise. But that’s not really what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about a president who _may_ have removed public officials engaged in a criminal investigation, and who _may_ have pressured others to report false information to the public – and we’re not even touching the many controversies involving emoluments. These are potentially serious violations of the Constitution and the laws under it. I will concede that at this point, the evidence is mostly coming from anonymous sources and we probably don’t have enough of it on the public record. But it certainly seems that it’s just a matter of time. Moreover, investigations are still ongoing, which leaves open the possibility that we may see more obstruction in the future. It’s one thing to fire one appointee because he embarrassed a president. It’s quite another to fire him because he’s investigating whether laws were broken. And it would be on an entirely new plane if the president were to use his power to shut down investigations, fire anyone who pursues justice, and replaces him with cronies who swear allegiance – that’s getting into dictatorship territory. And the sad part is, right now, at present, I’ve seen no evidence that Republicans in congress are interested in stopping him. Obviously, they see Trump as their tool, and they believe they can use him to their benefit. They believe they can manage him and confront him if necessary, oblivious to just how powerful the Executive branch of office can be if abused. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/452 "2017-05-24T19:51:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There is a huge difference between calling someone an idiot and a bitch. An idiot is an actual thing, while a bitch is just an insult. It doesn’t actually tell us anything. You mention Trump’s an idiot, and we know pretty well what you’re talking about. The only people I’ve ever heard calling Clinton a bitch are misogynists, and I hope that’s not what you mean. Not “bitch”; “evil bitch.” There’s a difference in application. The male version would be “evil bastard.” The adjective separates their meaning from the common use of the word “bitch” and the male version “dick” or “asshole,” and the use of the latter two generally don’t raise suspicions of misandry. > [@](#): > > And, well, it is weird that you use “evil” for Clinton but not for Trump. No matter how evil you think Clinton is, Trump is objectively worse. I don’t think I’ve said anything about Trump – other than idiot – but the use of the descriptor “evil” when describing multiple people in the same context seems boring and uncreative. > [@](#): > > That’s where the whole “you are partly to blame for not trying to stop him” comes in. No, you’re not as bad as someone who voted for him. But you still failed to do anything that had an actual chance to stop him. And you had the ability. The huge percentage of people who failed to vote are to blame, too, I suppose? And just what are we being “blamed” for? Simply living in a functioning democracy? We’re not all always enamored of the current person in office, but people of voting age are presumably adults and able to deal with it without "blaming” people for their own bad feelings. > [@](#): > > And while the world isn’t ending, our democracy is in a bad place, if there is a president who seems to be above the law. Even if Trump himself doesn’t do anything, the lack of any ability to stop him means that the next guy can. Democracies fail if there ceases to be a check on their rule. I’m not sure what shithole you live in. I voted in my annual HOA meeting a couple of weeks ago. I’m happy with most of my county and district judges, with about half of the county commission, would prefer to lose my state representative, and overall satisfied with my governor. I’m not too favorable about my two senators, but at least they’re not an evil bitch and an evil bastard (there’s a happy, repetition of the word “evil” for you). The millage proposal I wanted won, and the one I wanted to fail failed. All and all, democracy in this country is still pretty damned good, and you have a real perspective problem if your sole and entire focus is on the one person in our government who has the least influence on your daily life. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/453 "2017-05-24T20:13:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m getting the sense that for some folks on this MB, it’s not enough to oppose Trump. You must swear a “loyalty oath” to never correct anyone if they say something negative about Trump even if that thing is factually incorrect. The irony burns. _You are either with us or against us, in our black and white world!_ ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/454 "2017-05-24T20:29:11Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Not “bitch”; “evil bitch.” There’s a difference in application. The male version would be “evil bastard.” The adjective separates their meaning from the common use of the word “bitch” and the male version “dick” or “asshole,” and the use of the latter two generally don’t raise suspicions of misandry. So then why do you use gendered insults for women (bitch) but not for men (idiot)? That’s what’s curious about it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/455 "2017-05-24T20:59:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m getting the sense that for some folks on this MB, it’s not enough to oppose Trump. You must swear a “loyalty oath” to never correct anyone if they say something negative about Trump even if that thing is factually incorrect. The irony burns. Ah, the old reversal. Never gets old. And it got AWOL Bush to dunk on veteran Kerry, too ! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/456 "2017-05-24T22:28:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m getting the sense that for some folks on this MB, it’s not enough to oppose Trump. You must swear a “loyalty oath” to never correct anyone if they say something negative about Trump even if that thing is factually incorrect. The irony burns. I’ve never gotten that sense. But then, I oppose Trump _and_ our Randian Republican “friends”. Did I miss the part where someone said something factually incorrect about Trump? If so, please enlighten me. If they were indeed wrong, I will be happy to stand up and say that this person was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/457 "2017-05-24T22:56:19Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’ve never gotten that sense. But then, I oppose Trump _and_ our Randian Republican “friends”. > > Did I miss the part where someone said something factually incorrect about Trump? If so, please enlighten me. If they were indeed wrong, I will be happy to stand up and say that this person was wrong. I guess we have different senses. And I never said it was you. But apparently you didn’t read the OP of this thread. That’s a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/458 "2017-05-25T03:03:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Ah, the old reversal. Never gets old. And it got AWOL Bush to dunk on veteran Kerry, too ! And it gave you a chance to drag the dead horse about Bush being AWOL out and beat on it some more, even though you know the story was bullshit from the word go. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/459 "2017-05-25T03:12:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess we have different senses. And I never said it was you. But apparently you didn’t read the OP of this thread. That’s a shame. Did my OP say something factually I correct? Apparently you didn’t read it. That’s a shame. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710/460 "2017-05-25T03:20:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess we have different senses. And I never said it was you. But apparently you didn’t read the OP of this thread. That’s a shame. I didn’t say you said it was me. I more or less asked if you were whining about something specific. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-carrying-water-for-donald-trump-even-now-especially-now-kindly-go-fuck-yourself/786710.md?page=24)