# If you are so concerned about Hell, how about you go check it out for yourselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027 "2008-09-24T17:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/21 "2008-09-24T18:45:06Z")
> [@jjohns828](#): > > Honestly, these crazy preachers are pretty much just a part of the college experience these days. I remember when I was at the University of Florida a couple of years ago and most of my classes were in the building right next to the area zoned for these demonstrations and I had fun watching the crazies and the students who actually decided to bang their heads against the wall to debate them. It was actually a fun way to spend a fifteen minute break. These days? The University of Illinois campus was infested by Brother Jed Stein (or was it Jeb?) over 30 years ago. They have a perfect right to be there,. but you might exercise your free speech also. Why not get some friends, make yourselves an audience for them, and then laugh like hell at everything they say? No arguing, just laughing. Maybe some other people will join in too. ---
**Author:** ![jjohns828](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jjohns828](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjohns828)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/22 "2008-09-24T18:45:57Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Wow, times sure have changed. Back in my day, it was all Krshnas and Scientologists. They’re around as well, at least at the University of Florida. Pretty much every day you could find one of these groups spreading their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/23 "2008-09-24T18:49:28Z")
> [@Ro\_Carter](#): > > I completely agree that they have a right to say what they want. My problem with what they are doing is that some of the content is on that fuzzy grey line of hate speech. If they removed the “God says…” part from most of their statements, I’m fairly certain there would be no question of it being hate speech. First of all, I’m not sure how that would be hate speech. Secondly, while I actually support some limitations on hateful speech against groups which carries implicit threads and is demonstrably designed to leverage the fears of past violence against those groups, hate speech as a concept has been so distorted and perverted that for all intents and purposes we should just assume there’s no such thing. It should be the “shouting fire in a crowded movie theater” rare situation that probes the limits of free speech, not the “he called me a bad name” bullshit that it is normally invoked to deal with. I know you’re just venting, but I hate when people try to silence those who annoy them. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/24 "2008-09-24T18:50:57Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > If you agree they have a right to say what they want, then there’s no problem. Free speech includes “hate” speech. Exactly. And that’s the problem with the concept of “hate” speech. “God says so-and-so group is evil; you should spurn them” “So-and-so group is evil; you should spurn them” No functional difference between these statements vis-a-vis hate speech. Now if they start saying “Kill the so-and-so group”, regardless of whether they include that these instructions come from God, then they are in actionable territory. But this is already against the law (I hope) and you don’t need the idea of hate speech to deal with it. Note: I say this as a supposed “beneficiary” of hate speech restrictions. Anti-gay statements were among the first defined as hate speech, I believe, because they are supposed to lead to an atmosphere of hate that supposedly condones violence. Thanks, but no thanks, I value my right of free speech more than I value being protected from an atmosphere of violence (whatever that is). Violence is already illegal; incitement to violence likewise. “Atmosphere of violence” is too vague a concept on which to base restrictions on freedom of speech. Thanks, rant over. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/25 "2008-09-24T18:53:46Z")
> [@Litoris](#): > > I think I would be inclined to stop and stare if someone were able to tell the exact number of times I masturbate per day just by looking at me. Kind of like the “Guess Your Weight” stall at the carnival. I wonder if there are Kewpie dolls involved, or … ooh better … a neat Rush: 2112 coke mirror and maybe a Chinese Finger Trap. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/26 "2008-09-24T19:31:32Z")
> [@Ro\_Carter](#): > > I completely agree that they have a right to say what they want. My problem with what they are doing is that some of the content is on that fuzzy grey line of hate speech. If they removed the “God says…” part from most of their statements, I’m fairly certain there would be no question of it being hate speech. I notice that no one ever things that rants that they agree with in principle are ever “hate speech”. Odd, that. In any case, this isn’t hate speech or even close. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/27 "2008-09-24T19:47:39Z")
Dress up as Jesus and get as many friends as you can to do the same. This is the one I recommend. Glue fake hair to you hands and offer to shake theirs. Get your friends to do the same. Get everybody you can to wear horns and a shirt that says Horny old goat. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/28 "2008-09-24T21:24:19Z")
Back in 1990 I was a student at the U of Toledo (Ohio, not the cool city in Spain). The girl I was dating and I were walking toward the student union and there was one of those Brother Jed type loons spewing biblical vitriol at everyone who passed by. As we got closer to him he screamed, “You two are godless fornicators. You are both going to BURN IN HELL.” My girlfriend looked him right in the eye and said, “We’ll tell your mom you said hi,” without even breaking stride. That’s when I knew I was going to marry her. It lasted almost 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Ro\_Carter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7feea3/32.png) [@Ro\_Carter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ro_Carter)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/29 "2008-09-24T21:26:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I notice that no one ever things that rants that they agree with in principle are ever “hate speech”. Odd, that. > > In any case, this isn’t hate speech or even close. No, the “masturbate and go to hell” part is not even close to hate speech. However, most of the content about how homosexuals should not be permitted to live bears a little more consideration, at least in my opinion. My fault for not clarifying what I was classifying as possibly hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/30 "2008-09-24T21:34:03Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [Quote=friedo] > > But will I be able to masturbate in Hell? No, that’s what makes it Hell. [/QUOTE] Now wait a minute. I’m confused. If I stop, I’ll get into heaven, and because it’s heaven I’ll get to to it again? But if I don’t stop, I’m going to go the hell, where I can’t do it? Is this like that test where they put a candy in front of a kid and tell them that, if they wait, they get two instead of one? 😕 ETA: to the OP: They’re trolls and you can’t get rid of them, right? Troll 'em right back! Have fun! ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/31 "2008-09-24T22:38:20Z")
See if you can distract attention away from them and tick them off at the same time! Get a bunch of women together who don’t mind making out with one another and have them go at it in about 15 feet away from the trolls. Have them switch make out partners every few minutes and moan really loudly every now and again. While the trolls scream at them for being homosexual fornicators everyone else who walks by will be so distracted by the awesome of the group make out session that they won’t even notice the trolls. It’s win-win! ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/32 "2008-09-24T22:53:18Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > But will I be able to masturbate in Hell? No; it’s damnation without relief. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/33 "2008-09-24T22:59:39Z")
Brother Jed Smock’s site [http://www.brojed.org/contents.html](http://www.brojed.org/contents.html) For a shocker, look at his daughter’s wedding photos- a bare-shoulder dress AND DANCING! I had a few Jed&Cindy encounters at ISU in Terre Haute in 1985-6, & saw that daughter when she was maybe two. Jed wasn’t that bad. Cindy was a raving lunatic. Their old mentor the late Brother Max (Mad Max) Lynch was a jerk. Jed’s wikipedia page- [Brother Jed - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Jed) I’m amazed there isn’t one for Brother Max. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/34 "2008-09-24T23:08:22Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Brother Jed Smock’s site > > [http://www.brojed.org/contents.html](http://www.brojed.org/contents.html) > > For a shocker, look at his daughter’s wedding photos- a bare-shoulder dress AND DANCING! > > I had a few Jed&Cindy encounters at ISU in Terre Haute in 1985-6, & saw that daughter when she was maybe two. > > Jed wasn’t that bad. Cindy was a raving lunatic. Their old mentor the late Brother Max (Mad Max) Lynch was a jerk. > > Jed’s wikipedia page- [Brother Jed - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Jed) > I’m amazed there isn’t one for Brother Max. Here is a nice little tribute page to Bro Max, however, by someone who developed an odd respect for him. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/35 "2008-09-25T00:17:28Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I know you’re just venting, but I hate when people try to silence those who annoy them. There’s an irony for you… I’m kidding. But the juxtaposition of you hating such a thing and having the power to close and lock threads was too good to pass up. ---
**Author:** ![LVgeogeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b19c9b/32.png) [@LVgeogeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVgeogeek)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/36 "2008-09-25T00:31:38Z")
> [@Ro\_Carter](#): > > I attend a small to medium sized state university in a fairly conservative area. Somehow, a group of assholes on par with the WBC have decided that our campus is the frontline in the battle for souls. The head asshole spent two days on campus last year, camped out in a “free speech zone” near a particularly heavily populated part of campus, shouting to all that passed that they were going to hell. Those that made the mistake of stopping to stare at the crazy were pointed out and had their “sins” listed for the world to hear: “You masturbate twice a day, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!!” etc. They are particularly concerned about homosexuals, who are all apparently on par with Hitler in terms of evilness. > > Well, guess who has returned, and been in the same spot for three days in a row? He’s brought backup as well, being a couple of people holding “The End Is Near” type signs with roughly a paragraph stating essentially that everyone but them is going to HELL. \ I see people from whatever this group is, trolling Fremont Street (downtown) in Las Vegas with their big “end is near” type signage, telling all the folks out drinking and gambling that they are going to hell. It’s a lot of fun to watch, 'cause every now an then they’ll irritate the wrong drunkard and get bitched out. I don’t know if they have to have some sort of permit to be there, but I have never seen the police kick them out of/off Fremont Street. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/37 "2008-09-25T00:36:25Z")
Ugh, I hated these assholes at UC. There were three different groups, each with their own MO. The first was the hate guy. Some kind of priest, he would stand somewhere on the common and harangue everyone who walked by. He called everyone evil, and told people they were going to hell. If you argued with him you could work him up into a frothing rage. The second was the singing guy. Also a priest, he would stand on a bridge in the middle of campus and sing hymns. That’s it. One year, two of my friends, big scary goth types, stood next to him and sang along. They weren’t singing the same thing, or even in the same key, but they tried. For pretty much the whole afternoon. Didn’t see him after that. The third group was Campus Crusade for Christ. I hate them personally. They sent members to non-Christian events, like the famous Buddhist monk who came to campus every year, and disrupted them. I watched one guy stand up and call the monk a liar in the middle of his speech. I saw another group repeatedly stand and praise Jesus when called on for questions after the talk. They would huddle around and sing hymns, loudly, at other gatherings. I was an officer in Citadel, the gaming group on campus. We made fliers to advertise for membership, and CCC tore them down methodically. We caught several of them doing it, and they just blew us off like it was something they were supposed to do. Nothing happened when we complained. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/38 "2008-09-25T00:45:51Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > Ugh, I hated these assholes at UC. There were three different groups, each with their own MO. > > The first was the hate guy. Some kind of priest, he would stand somewhere on the common and harangue everyone who walked by. He called everyone evil, and told people they were going to hell. If you argued with him you could work him up into a frothing rage. > > The second was the singing guy. Also a priest, he would stand on a bridge in the middle of campus and sing hymns. That’s it. One year, two of my friends, big scary goth types, stood next to him and sang along. They weren’t singing the same thing, or even in the same key, but they tried. For pretty much the whole afternoon. Didn’t see him after that. > > The third group was Campus Crusade for Christ. I hate them personally. They sent members to non-Christian events, like the famous Buddhist monk who came to campus every year, and disrupted them. I watched one guy stand up and call the monk a liar in the middle of his speech. I saw another group repeatedly stand and praise Jesus when called on for questions after the talk. They would huddle around and sing hymns, loudly, at other gatherings. > > I was an officer in Citadel, the gaming group on campus. We made fliers to advertise for membership, and CCC tore them down methodically. We caught several of them doing it, and they just blew us off like it was something they were supposed to do. Nothing happened when we complained. Why’d your friends drive off the least offensive of the three? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/39 "2008-09-25T00:57:26Z")
At CU Boulder in the 80s, Crusade for Christ or some such went door to door IN THE DORM (at least in my dorm), trolling for converts. God they were scary people. Smiles fixed on their faces and never, ever alone. You never saw just one CforC-er. I think it is from them and from the morons who come to my door in the suburbs that have given me a distinct contempt for evangelizing. Ugh. At Uni of Iowa, I don’t recall seeing any at all. Certainly not off campus. I spent most of my time in bars, though, so… ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027/40 "2008-09-25T02:15:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” _That’s_ how it works. - [I’ve always thought that was the wrong approach; I’d rather defend the right of some-one I agreed with. Pick your battles.]\* But I think my sympathy with the OP is based on the word ‘shouting’; I’m getting more and more sensitive to constant loud background noise. Content doesn’t matter much to me; someone bellowing something I _agree with_ through a bull-horn has a good chance of changing my mind. Yes, people have the right to express their opinions, but not to _assault_ others with them. Couldn’t there be a decibel restriction in a Free Speech zone, so those of us who have not destroyed our hearing with sub-woofers can be spared? As for the Hecklers, well I find that interaction fascinating. Two groups of people with out a chance in hell of changing the other’s opinion expending all that energy, actually getting angry … don’t these people have families? Or are they just warming up for Thanksgiving dinner? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-are-so-concerned-about-hell-how-about-you-go-check-it-out-for-yourselves/465027.md?page=3)