# If you can't hold 200 lbs for 30 seconds... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261 "2016-06-24T20:03:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![elliott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@elliott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elliott)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/121 "2016-06-25T23:00:51Z")
If someone writes a book and someone else doesn’t “get it”, is it the fault of the author? the fact you can’t understand what I’m upset about says much more about your ability to read between the lines than anything else. For example, I can read your post and determine you think I’m either an asshole or don’t know how to properly express myself, which is why I clarified that I can write 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/122 "2016-06-25T23:02:47Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > 1. I’d disagree. If you’re out of shape, you’re knowingly harming your body and I think you should have to defend the burden you place on society as a result. But that’s an ethical dilemma related to things like health insurance so w/e You can be in shape but still have problems like bad backs, knee problems, arthritis, etc. Stuff like that doesn’t prevent you from basic exercise, but you most likely won’t be able to carry a bunch of heavy furniture like that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/123 "2016-06-25T23:03:02Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > 1. I’d disagree. If you’re out of shape, you’re knowingly harming your body and I think you should have to defend the burden you place on society as a result. But that’s an ethical dilemma related to things like health insurance so w/e Everyone at some point in his or her life becomes some kind of burden to someone or something in one way or another. You could easily find yourself paralyzed from a freak lifting mishap and then be a burden. You don’t live other people’s lives so it’s not your business to judge their physical fitness unless they ask for your advice. Different people are different. > [@](#): > > 1. My decision to help someone isn’t based on them being fit. My decision to be happy to help is based on whether they are though. If you’re just using me because you’re too cheap to hire some movers AND you’re too out of shape to guarantee that me and you can safely do this job, I’m gonna be upset Too take people into your life as they are, not as they think they should be. Is this person someone you care about? Someone you have an obligation to? A friend? A relative? Is this person too poor to hire movers? Be as generous or as stingy as you want with your time, but don’t pretend it has something to do with them. It’s all on you. If you agree to help, then you accept that person’s ability and strength as it is, not as you think it should be. > [@](#): > > 1. I’m mostly just memeing because I thought it was funny that people got so caught up on this weird minimum amount of necessary masculinity I set as an example for visualization purposes. Being a man, woman, agender, w/e isn’t a result of your fitness or life choices. You can be a masculine woman or effeminate guy and that’s cool, but I’d still hope you’re taking care of yourself enough to not drop a couch on yourself You’re two one who brought up being a “man.” It’s up to you to explain what you mean by it. > [@](#): > > What’s the pathology of someone who asks there neighbor to do shit for them for free and doesn’t even use their free labor properly? Wanting help is not pathological. Being less strong than you think they should be might be a physical limitation but not a mental or a character pathology. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/124 "2016-06-25T23:04:04Z")
Grrrrrrrrr! Elliott strong! Elliott lift couch! Elliott smash walnuts with mighty cock! Elliott REAL MAN! Grrrrrrr! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/125 "2016-06-25T23:24:56Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > And as far as 200lbs being arbitrary: It is. I’m saying its 200 lbs because 300 lbs is quite heavy and I wouldn’t expect the average person to be able to support that. 100 lbs is relatively light and I’d expect most people to be able to carry 100 lbs easily. The point of 200lbs is its a weight where the average person would be able to hold it but not necessarily move or maneuver the weight. […] > > […] I thought it was funny that people got so caught up on this weird minimum amount of necessary masculinity I set as an example for visualization purposes. And which you keep coming back to defend over and over and over again, interspersed with kvetching about how **other** people should just ignore it. Look dude, if you’re saying _“Okay, forget the 200 lbs, it was a stupid example, my point is just that people of **whatever** lifting capacity ought not to try to carry stuff that’s too heavy for them”_, then stop trying to justify that specific number. If you **do** insist on continuing to try to justify that specific number, stop complaining that other people are criticizing your choice of it. > [@elliott](#): > > If someone writes a book and someone else doesn’t “get it”, is it the fault of the author? If the author is as incoherent and inconsistent as you’ve shown yourself to be in this thread, then yes. > [@elliott](#): > > I can read your post and determine you think I’m either an asshole or don’t know how to properly express myself To be fair, there’s no reason it couldn’t be both. 😉 > [@DSeid](#): > > We have professional movers in this thread; my experience was as a teen working part time with some professionals. Gave me great respect for the pros. The job is less brawn than having some moving smarts. Amen to that. As someone quite strong and enduring for my age and gender but definitely not in the couch-carrying class, I have had some truly impressive pro movers working for me. **How to make pro movers happy even if there are stairs:** - Have everything properly packed and labeled, with corresponding clear labels on the places they’re supposed to be put, well before the movers get there. - Books should be tightly packed in smallish boxes rather than huge moving boxes. - Pad and wrap the hell out of anything at all fragile or scuffable: even the most careful movers appreciate having a margin of error for accidents. - Clear all transportation pathways, including walls as well as floors. They have enough to do getting your furniture around the landing without worrying about bumping the wall mirror you didn’t bother to take down yet. - Put everything not being moved away in closets and/or rooms that are closed off from the moveables area. - Have at least one reasonably clean working bathroom available; pros generally don’t use it on your time but sometimes a guy needs a pee. - Especially on a hot day, it’s only common humanity to provide some cool water and maybe juice or sodas with unbreakable glasses. Snacks and paper towels are nice too, though again, the good ones don’t generally use the time you’re paying for to stuff their faces. - Make sure the payment conditions and terms are worked out beforehand, and pay promptly in the agreed-upon form and amount as soon as the job is over, as well as making sure that any required paperwork is signed off on. - Have a bunch of tens or twenties on hand and tip each mover separately and equally at the end of the job. The foreman, if any, doesn’t need a bigger tip for being the foreman, that’s why he presumably gets higher wages. - A coupon for the local ice cream place in the tip envelope along with the cash is often much appreciated, as is an offer of any leftover drinks or snacks to take along with them. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/126 "2016-06-25T23:25:08Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > I don’t really see how I’m an idiot? We had our plan in place. I’d guide the couch around the home while he walked straight. The only hitch was the stairs. We ran into problems because a third party managed to obstruct our path in the interim between us leaving the domicile and returning with the couch (~5 minutes). You can argue I wasn’t professional enough or whatever but it wasn’t a particularly hard to carry couch, we just got caught up in a string of bad luck and I’m frustrated that someone nearly got hurt because of their lack of fitness. > > Also a 185 bench for a single isn’t “intermediate” in the coaching world. Intermediate is when linear gains stop, which for most guys will be much closer to 225. Yeah, most idiots cannot see how they are idiots. Leather couch with built-in recliners? Bulky and heavy. Not much different than the dreaded sofabed, not quite as heavy but a more awkward lift with weight very likely unevenly distributed. And idiots sometimes do not secure the recliners so things extend at bad moments. Hard to get and maintain a good grip. Let’s give an unwarranted pass on not bothering to verify the stairs were a straight shot and that the couch needed to be set down for a second (half a minute!). Bottom guy sets his end down on a step first sure that it is secure and then top guy lowers his end. Before letting go top guy has bottom guy verify the bottom is secure and that he can maintain its position. Heavy sofas on stairs can cause serious injury. Leaving someone holding a bottom end up by himself was reckless and stupid. Inexcusably so. Again, glad you did not cause your friend serious harm. Do him a favor and never help him again. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/127 "2016-06-25T23:31:43Z")
I can touch 200 lbs. for 30 seconds ! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/128 "2016-06-25T23:44:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > (excerpted) 4. You have several times stated your standard as one that qualifies a person to be “a man.” What makes you think that your evaluation of a person’s skills or abilities have anything to do with being a man? And why do you treat not being a man as something undesirable? Are human beings that are not men inferior to those who are? Also, once we have determined who are not men, can we move on to who is Devo? ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/129 "2016-06-26T00:38:31Z")
> [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](#): > > Complete agreeement. Ive been a general laborer since 1978… I’ve had to wrestle ALL SORTS of things all kinds of weird places. > Lifting 200 lbs dead weight, is not something to be taken lightly…haha > Let alone stairs, or corners…or haha…putting it up on top of a shelf!! > Wheels, levers, and fulcrums are your friends.😃 Amen brother ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/130 "2016-06-26T00:53:13Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > snip. > > Its a lot easier to not swing shit around if you can actually hold onto it. I’m not asking you to be able to carry a couch upstairs by yourself, but I shouldn’t be able to sit the edge of my couch down on the top of the stairs and see you struggling to support half a couch. > > Don’t really see the point in being elitist about your moving skill either. It’d be like me shittalking my undergrad students for not having read all the stuff I have. > snip Or maybe shittalking the average male for your stupidity. You are carrying the upper end of the couch up the stairs? Sooooo you’re shittalking someone for pushing the entire weight of the couch up the stairs while you hold the upper end clear of the steps and then you stop at the top, set your end down and watch them struggle? I retract the comment I made about you sounding like an idiot, you’re an asshole, the type who gets people hurt. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/131 "2016-06-26T00:53:30Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > It’s not might fault . . . > I like to think I know at least the basics of writing. I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/132 "2016-06-26T01:05:34Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > And just by and by, as a guy in his late 40’s I gave up moving people’s heavy-ass furniture about 12 years ago after a three day ordeal helping a particular friend of mine move for the second time in two years. Up and down multiple flights of stairs at both places with couches and entertainment centers that felt like they were stuffed with lead. > > Need some money to hire a mover? I’m there for you. Need someone to help lug a bureau? Nope. That’s something you do in your twenties as far as I’m concerned. Especially since poor college student furniture is usually a lot lighter than the over-stuffed monstrosities we get as we become more affluent. There is also the fact that as you hit your 30s and older issues like slipped discs, torn muscles and pinched nerves become a more serious threat. Last time I helped someone move we had 6 people. Of those six people, three developed moderately serious injuries that each took months to heal. Fuck that. Hire college students. ---
**Author:** ![elliott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@elliott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elliott)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/133 "2016-06-26T01:45:27Z")
Honestly this thread has just devolved into pedants being overly specific with how they interpret things and people projecting details that I never even expressed onto my story I don’t really know how many times I have to clarify that I checked the stairwell was clear before starting to move the couch or that 200lbs is an example of a weight that I figured most people can hold indefinitely before you guys stop saying “Yeah but what about THIS specific interpretation that I’ve made up because I want you to be stupid”. You’re all right, but you’re also assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/134 "2016-06-26T02:20:09Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > You’re all right, but you’re also assholes. Welcome to the boards. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/135 "2016-06-26T02:22:46Z")
**elliott** , it really doesn’t take any pedantic analysis of your textual exertions to note your relative lack of intelligence. Most of us need only read statetements from you like > [@elliott](#): > > …200lbs is an example of a weight that I figured most people can hold indefinitely… to figure that out. The fact that you’ve also repeatedly insisted that the inability to lift such a weight means the unable person isn’t “fit” is another dead giveaway that you’re an idiot. I’m happy to clarify these things for you, and if you should need help understanding other objections, let me know. Just, maybe ask some others as well. I’m just saying. Don’t make me do all the heavy lifting for you. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/136 "2016-06-26T02:31:27Z")
> [@elliott](#): > > You’re all right, but you’re also assholes. you’re the asshole who barged in here claiming that anyone who couldn’t hold up 200 lbs is “weak.” look, your problem is that you think “being healthy” = “being a weight lifter.” You totally screw your own argument when you talk about people’s health today vs. years ago. And I, like others, say you’re full of shit. I have scores of photos of my grandparents and their friends from the 1940s-1960s. Yes, they were definitely not as fat as people are today. But you know what else they weren’t? _Muscular._ I looked at a few photos of my grandfather from about 1955, and he was (by modern standards) _scrawny._ And this is a guy who served in WWII in the Navy, and worked some excruciating manual-labor jobs afterward. and people weren’t really healthier back then, anyway. They may not have been suffering from obesity-related metabolic diseases, but they were suffering from conditions brought on by workplace conditions, environmental conditions, or infectious diseases. My grandfather I mentioned above? One of those jobs he had after the war was working in coal mines, which gave him Coal workers’ pneumoconiosis a.k.a Black Lung. He spent the last 5 years of his life degrading until he died from it at 65. lifting weights wouldn’t have saved him. So shut it with your “if you can’t lift some random number of pounds I’ve dreamed up you’re not a man” bullshit. my grandfather was in WWII and worked hard jobs which eventually killed him. So please understand if I don’t give one wet runny shit how much you can bench press. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/137 "2016-06-26T02:50:29Z")
I was going to say C- minus trolling, but he’s certainly gotten some people to engage. I’ll call it a solid B. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/138 "2016-06-26T02:56:25Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I was going to say C- minus trolling, but he’s certainly gotten some people to engage. I’ll call it a solid B. He’s not a troll. Just an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![elliott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@elliott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elliott)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/139 "2016-06-26T03:10:40Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > you’re the asshole who barged in here claiming that anyone who couldn’t hold up 200 lbs is “weak.” > > look, your problem is that you think “being healthy” = “being a weight lifter.” You totally screw your own argument when you talk about people’s health today vs. years ago. And I, like others, say you’re full of shit. I have scores of photos of my grandparents and their friends from the 1940s-1960s. Yes, they were definitely not as fat as people are today. But you know what else they weren’t? _Muscular._ I looked at a few photos of my grandfather from about 1955, and he was (by modern standards) _scrawny._ And this is a guy who served in WWII in the Navy, and worked some excruciating manual-labor jobs afterward. > > and people weren’t really healthier back then, anyway. They may not have been suffering from obesity-related metabolic diseases, but they were suffering from conditions brought on by workplace conditions, environmental conditions, or infectious diseases. My grandfather I mentioned above? One of those jobs he had after the war was working in coal mines, which gave him Coal workers’ pneumoconiosis a.k.a Black Lung. He spent the last 5 years of his life degrading until he died from it at 65. > > lifting weights wouldn’t have saved him. So shut it with your “if you can’t lift some random number of pounds I’ve dreamed up you’re not a man” bullshit. my grandfather was in WWII and worked hard jobs which eventually killed him. So please understand if I don’t give one wet runny shit how much you can bench press. You \*are \*weak if you can’t deadlift 200 lbs. That’s an objective fact. Like I’m willing to let the rest of you call me an idiot based on your own suppositions or whatever you need to feel good about yourself, but 200 lbs is what a highschool freshman should be deadlifting by Christmas. The most recommended and respected beginner barbell routine has you hitting 200 on your deadlift by week 9 at the absolute latest. The vast majority of lifters will hit it far sooner. Your anti-intellectualism (on a forum for a column dedicated to fighting that) is kind of appalling. Claiming that weightlifting isn’t a core part of fitness is downright wrong. The benefits of building muscle are scientifically proven. ---
**Author:** ![elliott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@elliott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elliott)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261/140 "2016-06-26T03:13:33Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > **elliott** , it really doesn’t take any pedantic analysis of your textual exertions to note your relative lack of intelligence. Most of us need only read statetements from you like to figure that out. The fact that you’ve also repeatedly insisted that the inability to lift such a weight means the unable person isn’t “fit” is another dead giveaway that you’re an idiot. > > I’m happy to clarify these things for you, and if you should need help understanding other objections, let me know. Just, maybe ask some others as well. > > I’m just saying. Don’t make me do all the heavy lifting for you. Please prove how a weight that an untrained individual can work up to within 2 months is a heavy weight? That’s like saying that something you’ve learned in kindergarten is intellectual or being able to draw a stick figure is artistic. Its the bare minimum that anyone who is at all interested in the hobby would consider “trained”. Its not me being a dick, its me just stating an objective fact. If you can’t lift a weight that requires the minimum of training to lift, you’re not weak. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-hold-200-lbs-for-30-seconds/758261.md?page=8)