# If you can't take critisism, don't go requesting reviews **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181 "2019-05-19T14:43:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/41 "2019-05-20T00:12:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, that’d explain why he’s publishing the first draft, but it still doesn’t account for why the first draft is so bad. And with how complicated those sentences are, I’d actually suspect the reverse: That he started simpler, and then went back with a thesaurus to embellish everything. Yeah–if you can write clear prose, writing sentences that godawful is really hard. Take the example sentence, which I’m going to try to dissect here: "Quickly and with great urgency but also incredulous to find himself, out of a clear blue sky, to be abruptly worried for the very life of his wife, Gil lifted Robin from the seat to place her on the ground just beyond the shoulder of the road. " Quick rewrite: > [@](#): > > Gil lifted Robin out of her seat and set her down on the side of the road. The word “lifted,” in the original sentence, is modified with two adverbs (well, an adverb and an adverbial phrase): “Quickly” and “with great urgency.” Each adverb is separated from the verb by more than two dozen words. The adverbs mean basically the same thing here. “Gil” is modified by the adjective “incredulous.” This adjective is connected to the adverbs with the conjunction “but,” which should only be used to connect similar parts of speech. “Incredulous” is modified by the adverbial phrase “to find himself.” “To find himself” is modified by two adverbial phrases: “Out of a clear blue sky” and “to be worried.” “To be worried” is modified by two adverbs: “abruptly” and “for the life of his wife.” “Abruptly” and “out of a clear blue sky” have essentially the same meaning. “Life” is modified by the adverb “very.” And that’s just up through the first verb in the main clause of the sentence. It doesn’t get into how “to place” is used to modify “lifted” or how nested adverbial phrases are used to modify “to place.” As I count, the sentence only contains one actual grammatical error–the use of “but” to link an adjective to a couple of adverbs–but it has so many nested adverbial phrases that it’s nearly impossible to read straight through without confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/42 "2019-05-20T00:46:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, that’d explain why he’s publishing the first draft, but it still doesn’t account for why the first draft is so bad. And with how complicated those sentences are, I’d actually suspect the reverse: That he started simpler, and then went back with a thesaurus to embellish everything. Lawrence Block is by far the wittiest man I met during 20 years editing crime and mystery novels. I attended a panel at a mystery conference years ago where an audience member stood up and demanded to know how the panelists constructed their novels. Four of them went on and on about creating outlines, filling in detail, beginning the draft, and then the relentless re-writing. Larry came in at the end with “I never write an outline…I write the first draft _really fast_…and then I publish it.” ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/43 "2019-05-20T14:36:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve never had the hubris to submit any of my writing. > > I had the impression most publishing companies typically demand a lot of rewrites or they completely reject it? > > Self-publishers side-step that process to their detriment. It must be hard finding reviewers that provide reliable critiques for rewrites. I’m thinking you’re not familiar with modern-day self publishing. That’s cool–a lot of people aren’t. But the days of “I write something, slap a cover on it, throw it out on Amazon and rake in the bucks” are long gone. Sure, people still write that way–there’s nothing stopping them from doing it–but those folks don’t make more than a few bucks selling their books to family and friends. Nowadays, the self-published authors who take their work seriously differ very little from traditionally published authors. They pay professional editors to go through their books (some of them even pay different types of editors: copy, developmental, and proofreaders, but that’s rarer–most use one editor and maybe some ARC readers or beta readers to catch typos). They pay professional cover designers to make their covers (with an eye toward what’s selling in their particular genre). They spend a lot of money on marketing via Facebook, Amazon Ads, BookBub, and other sources. I can say with complete confidence that there are many self-published books out there that have every bit the quality level and engaging stories as the stuff put out by the publishing houses. Self publishing isn’t the last resort of the incompetent writer anymore. Many of us _choose_ to self-pub, both because we want to retain control over our process and our release cycle, and because we want to keep a significantly larger chunk of our royalties. Are there self-published literary masterpieces? I don’t know. I haven’t personally seen any, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. But I’m aware of (as in, I’ve either met them in person, taken one of their courses, or in once case had dinner with) at least seven self-published authors, in the fantasy/sci-fi, thriller, and romance genres, who bring in over a million dollars a year with their work. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/44 "2019-05-20T15:26:33Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Anyone feel this whole thing might be manufactured to make that book go viral? Like ebola? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/45 "2019-05-20T20:45:11Z")
This is performance art, isn’t it? I mean, and I use the word ‘literally’ here very conscious of it’s actual meaning, most people could literally not write that badly if they tried: Any one of those sentences would be finalists and likely winners in the Bulwer Lytton contest. Please tell me these sentences weren’t written by someone trying to write well. Seriously, please tell me that. The thought that someone really thinks these are good is unnerving. No, more than unnerving. It calls into question everything I know about honest effort and craft and humanity itself. The sentences are a glimpse into a normally-unseen abyss of horror; one that I have until now been ignorant of. But now I can’t escape the knowledge that it exists, that under our normal, sane, everyday lives of nouns and verbs that mostly agree, lurks … that thing, that twisted affront to reason, goodness and hope. For God’s sake, tell me this is all a joke. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/46 "2019-05-20T21:02:31Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > This is performance art, isn’t it? > I mean, and I use the word ‘literally’ here very conscious of it’s actual meaning, most people could literally not write that badly if they tried: Any one of those sentences would be finalists and likely winners in the Bulwer Lytton contest. I don’t think Klein was trying to write that bad. Sometimes you just can’t improve on the talent you were born with. Has anyone seen samples of any of his other “books”? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/47 "2019-05-20T21:04:16Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Here are the first three sentences of the novel: It was a dark and stormy night… ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/48 "2019-05-20T21:14:52Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I don’t think Klein was trying to write that bad. Sometimes you just can’t improve on the talent you were born with. > > Has anyone seen samples of any of his other “books”? He’s got another Kindle book up (actually three of them, but they’re Parts 1 through 3 of the same story), and the biggest part of the Look Inside is a bunch of giant stars. Seriously, they’re huge. The writing style, once we actually get to it, looks about the same. Edit: Part Three is _seven hundred pages_. :eek: Here’s the blurb: > [@](#): > > Part three of The Amulet is the mountainous dessert of the story. If you’ve read the first two parts of The Amulet and think you have it figured out, you haven’t. Probably not even close. You are about to taste a dessert of a flavor with which no reader is familiar. Of course, much in part three will delight you, but other pages will grip you while still others will shock you. And the conclusion? Well, that rivals or exceeds the ending of the classic film that inspired this novel - Raiders of the Lost Ark. So fasten your seat belt. This part is quite a ride. Near the end of The Amulet, you’ll be passing through Level 5 rapids. > Please note that part three contains approximately 40% more pages than parts one and two _combined_. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/49 "2019-05-20T21:37:08Z")
This is the opening paragraph of _The Amulecross A Christian Thriller Part One Relic_: > [@](#): > > It was already hot. And it was only morning. So it went. For twelve hours each day, every day, a seething self-luminous giant angrily asserted itself over this bleak desert terrain as it-had for millions of years past…branding it with its fierce light and blistering heat before returning twelve hours later to brand it again. Clouds that tried to challenge the searing authority of this cosmic power could offer no more than fleeting cover against a relentless solar assault that long ago had desiccated this part of the world. The scarcity of anything green on the ground testified to the strength and radiance of this monstrous inferno. It alone was responsible for the sere nature of the soil. Only the pale limestone cliffs, barren plateaus, craggy rock formations and the hardiest plants that sparsely dotted the vast expanse of desert wilderness were oblivious to the brutal effects of such inimical luminosity and temperature. This was the scathing land upon which Ali lived with his father, mother and two brothers. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/50 "2019-05-20T21:46:47Z")
In [“Editorial Reviews” “From the Author”](https://www.amazon.com/Amulet-Part-One-Dean-Klein-ebook/dp/B006MH4BRI), he asks that nobody buy used copies of his books or books by anyone else: > [@](#): > > One more thing! On my Kindle page you will note offers from third-party vendors for new or used copies of my book(s) they claim are available from them. New copies are ONLY available from Amazon. It is also not at all clear how these outfits could even obtain a used copy my works. Therefore, please do not patronize these companies for my or any author’s work as whatever copies they profess to have may be defective and are certainly older copies that do not embody the latest refinements to the story. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/51 "2019-05-20T21:55:08Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This is the opening paragraph of _The Amulecross A Christian Thriller Part One Relic_: So… They lived in the desert. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/52 "2019-05-21T02:11:14Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This is the opening paragraph of _The Amulecross A Christian Thriller Part One Relic_: My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/53 "2019-05-21T02:25:08Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; > Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! You laugh, but [while employed at SRI, his reports were published worldwide, read by senior managers of major U.S., European and Japanese firms](https://horrormade.com/2017/03/16/a-springboard-for-inspired-horror-story-writing/)! ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/54 "2019-05-21T02:38:23Z")
Does anyone else suspect there may be some sort of connection between Dunning Krueger and Bulwer Lytton? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/55 "2019-05-21T06:22:11Z")
yeah but for the $900 paperback version, still not a bad deal. I’m in. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/56 "2019-05-21T13:35:53Z")
Dibs on Will Iam Sha-Kespeare. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/57 "2019-05-21T13:46:59Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Here are the first three sentences of the novel: Bulwer Lytton Award winner for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/58 "2019-05-21T13:53:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yeah–if you can write clear prose, writing sentences that godawful is really hard. > > Take the example sentence, which I’m going to try to dissect here: > > "Quickly and with great urgency but also incredulous to find himself, out of a clear blue sky, to be abruptly worried for the very life of his wife, Gil lifted Robin from the seat to place her on the ground just beyond the shoulder of the road. " > > Quick rewrite: Personally I’d make it: Gil lifted Robin out of her seat and set her down on the side of the road. _Shit!_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/59 "2019-05-21T14:28:34Z")
What does “beyond the shoulder of the road” mean? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181/60 "2019-05-21T14:29:48Z")
In the ditch beside the road? “Gil lifted Robin out of her seat and set her in the drainage ditch next to the road”? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-cant-take-critisism-dont-go-requesting-reviews/834181.md?page=4)