# If you don't know what God is how do you know God doesn't exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754 "2005-12-08T21:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754/81 "2005-12-09T19:34:28Z")
**Snickers** The reason for the two questions is that they underlie two common assumptions that are made. One is that God needs to be a limited and easily defined term in order for it to exist. And the second part is that the answer to the question is obviously yes, but people will tell you that you are halluinating when you experience God, even though they have no evidence that points in either direction clearly, as they do not know what God is, and they can’t possibly know what you experience that they have never had was like in order to judge it as a hallucination. So the questions might seem silly, but they are meant to pick apart some very basic assumptions made by many different people. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754/82 "2005-12-09T20:19:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > First Question: > f you don’t know the meaning of the word God, then how do you know that God doesn’t exist? The idea of a god is product, nothing more. It’s what religions package and sell. God exists in the same way that Captain Crunch does: to help sales and marketing. Second question: Is it possible for one person to have an experience that another person has never had? [/QUOTE] Every experience that a person has is totally unique to that person. The answer is yes. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754/83 "2005-12-09T20:35:13Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I know, I have experienced it, I have seen God so to speak, I can see God whenever I want to. When I look at this screen I can see God, when I look at anything I can see God. Its not merely a feeling of well-being, it is a sense that when I really look at the light that is contained in every single little part of matter, I suddenly know much more than I did before. What does God look like? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754/84 "2005-12-09T20:43:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Your assumption that the feeling felt “Good” is just that an assumption. What I want to know is how come everyone here is more willing to believe without backing that I am hallucinating, rather than that I actually experienced what I claim to have experienced. > > I don’t believe its a supernatural being. The word supernatural is so overused that is has been sucked of all meaning. God is perfectly natural. Basically, the experience I have had of God, is as real as the experience that I am talking to you right now. To question that experience, I might as well question whether or not YOU exist. > > I think denying the existence of God is like a couple lines of HTML code arguing whether or not there really is a google. > > In order to deny the experience of God, one must come with a lot of preconceptions and prejudgements as to what that is and generally the people who try to speculate that perhaps you are hallucinating, don’t care that their speculations are as devoid of evidence as that which they are trying to disprove. > > I never once said my experience was supernatural, I merely said that the idea is so expansive that it’s quite difficult to describe. Beyond words, and supernatural are two very different things. > > Why is it that people keep comparing it to microcosmic concepts such as martian moon rays? Why is there a need to diminish the nature of the debate to simplistic terms that appeal much more to the emotional faux skepticism that is ingrained in our society. > > As I have said before there is a big difference between: > \*\* > I do not believe there is a God.\*\* > > and > > **I believe there is not a God** > > If you fall into the first category, I am not really talking to you. If you fall into the second then I am talking to you. Reserving judgement when one doesn’t know is completely sensible, but making a definitive statement when one doesn’t know is not sensible. A part of the lack of sensibility is assuming that just because you don’t know, and your friends don’t know, that nobody knows. > > I know, I have experienced it, I have seen God so to speak, I can see God whenever I want to. When I look at this screen I can see God, when I look at anything I can see God. Its not merely a feeling of well-being, it is a sense that when I really look at the light that is contained in every single little part of matter, I suddenly know much more than I did before. > > As for whoever made that **sophomoric** comment, just because you stopped thinking about the subject, doesn’t mean there isn’t more to know about it. > > Erek Well, then your definition of god isn’t the one most people use, and reduces the meaning of the word to the same level as the meaning of the word “christian”. If you want the words “knowledge” and “god” to be interchangeable, I can’t stop you. But you cannot communicate efficiently with the majority of people on this planet if you do. There is a third option: “I have no reason to believe there’s a god”. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754/85 "2005-12-09T21:08:32Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > As I have said before there is a big difference between: > \*\* > I do not believe there is a God.\*\* > > and > > **I believe there is not a God** > > If you fall into the first category, I am not really talking to you. If you fall into the second then I am talking to you. Reserving judgement when one doesn’t know is completely sensible, but making a definitive statement when one doesn’t know is not sensible. A part of the lack of sensibility is assuming that just because you don’t know, and your friends don’t know, that nobody knows. > > Erek I actually used to think the same thing, but then I realized that saying I believe there is no god is different from saying “I know there is no god.” Many theists believe in god without a lot of evidence, some even admit this. An atheist, who looks at several religions and says that he is confident enough to believe there is no god is being perfectly rational. I’d assume this atheist would change his belief if evidence appeared. Belief is different from dogmatism, especially if you are willing to change belief. There is a difference, though. The first statement might be made without much introspection. We often argue whether it makes sense to say a baby has no god belief, but everyone would agree that a baby does not believe there is no god, right? ---
**Author:** ![AvaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AvaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvaB)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754/86 "2005-12-09T22:09:51Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I actually used to think the same thing, but then I realized that saying I believe there is no god is different from saying “I know there is no god.” Many theists believe in god without a lot of evidence, some even admit this. An atheist, who looks at several religions and says that he is confident enough to believe there is no god is being perfectly rational. I’d assume this atheist would change his belief if evidence appeared. Belief is different from dogmatism, especially if you are willing to change belief. > > There is a difference, though. The first statement might be made without much introspection. We often argue whether it makes sense to say a baby has no god belief, but everyone would agree that a baby does not believe there is no god, right? I think this argument is irrelevant. Without evidence to support either claim, okay fine. However, mswas isn’t saying this. He/She _has_ “evidence”, in the form of observation and experience, unlike your theoretical baby, who has no reason to speculate upon god, having no knowledge of the concept. Mswas has “evidence” of _something_, but instead of applying scientific principles to this experience, chooses to say “I do not understand it, therefore it is inexplicable - it must be God”. Just because an atheist cannot explain something does not make that thing the province of a super-, supra-, or extranatural being. Atheists believe in rational explanations for things. If a god were to manifest to me in such a form so there could be _no possible rational explanation_ , even one outside the realms of my personal knowledge, then I would still exhaust all avenues of inquiry before conceding belief. A god worthy of my belief would appreciate this. In an infinite universe, anything is possible, even god. However, as god is the least likely explanation (hell, there’s more “evidence” to support the existence of fairies), I feel more than justified in my atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754/87 "2005-12-09T22:27:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Snickers** The reason for the two questions is that they underlie two common assumptions that are made. One is that God needs to be a limited and easily defined term in order for it to exist. And the second part is that the answer to the question is obviously yes, but people will tell you that you are halluinating when you experience God, even though they have no evidence that points in either direction clearly, as they do not know what God is, and they can’t possibly know what you experience that they have never had was like in order to judge it as a hallucination. > Erek Dude, you need to get new friends. Either that, or you need to stop pushing your beliefs onto other people that don’t want them. Just because you have had a life changing, ineffable experience doesn’t necessarily mean that “God” does exist, either, you know? Maybe your experience has proven to you beyond a doubt that “God” exists, but don’t be offended when I might still be skeptical, based only on your recounting of your experiences. I also think you’re selling people short. While there are definitely religious people who have a simplistic view of God as the big bearded kindly guy in the sky, there’s equally as many people who have a nuanced, complex, sophisticated, and not easily defined “God.” And they’re forced to use the limitations of language to try to encompass those ideas to share with others. You seem to be equating these limitations of language with limitations of that “God” itself, which is a flawed assumption. I can use a simplistic definition to describe Democrats or Republicans, too, but that doesn’t mean I’ve reduced the ideals of those groups to that definition. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754/88 "2005-12-09T22:43:43Z")
I think it’s actually almost impossible for someone to _have_ an experience that someone else has had, at least not _precisely_ the same, when you get right down to the fine detail. I’ve just eaten a slice of swiss roll and I intend to wash it down with a cup of tea; something you’d be forgiven for imagining was rather common, however, the precise amount of swiss roll I ate is quite likely to differ from the precise amount others have eaten before me; the time of day at which I ate it adds another variable, as does the exact manner in which I nibbled it. the duration between the swiss roll and the tea, the amount and temperature of tea, in _which particular cup_, and so on. Then there’s the fact that the first taste of the vanilla cream filling made me think of ice cream, then it made me wonder what people really mean when they talk about _French Vanilla_; by the time I was chewing my second mouthful of cake, I was reminiscing about a camping holiday I spent in the south of France back in the eighties. And so on, and so on; it’s highly unlikely that any two humans have _ever_ enjoyed _ **precisely** _ the same experience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-know-what-god-is-how-do-you-know-god-doesnt-exist/334754.md?page=4)