# If you don't send jobs overseas you'll be run out of business. Hah. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400 "2011-04-22T20:05:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/21 "2011-04-26T13:50:57Z")
The OP is damn right. Think of all these companies which think they are are being so smart, taking away jobs from good Americans and giving them to them commies. Serves them right when they get screwed. In my last company, good old American company started to screw over it’s US workers by doing manufacturing over there. They were getting squeezed from the bottom by foreign competition. So, they found a partner Chinese company, started having products built there. Transferred some more technology, was able to produce products which they had previously not been competitive, and took market share away from the competitors. Build up the China operations, including buying out the local partner, and owned the building and got the engineers. They increased world sales by $20 million a year, hiring more higher priced sales and marketing people. So this just shows the the OP is right. Outsourcing is stupid. Oh. Wait. Maybe it doesn’t show that. Sorry. Wrong example, I just know the ones that work out. But I’m sure that because one company got screwed, everyone does. Or not. Doing business in China reminds me of a book title “Swimming with the sharks without being eaten alive.” Not the book, which is about business in general, but the idea which is if you go swimming there, you’ve got to know the the fuck you are doing. Hell, even the Taiwanese get screwed over there at times, you know it’s going to get rough, so you hire someone good to guide you. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/22 "2011-04-26T14:12:13Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > Fuck protectionism in every form. China stealing its foreign investor’s intellectual property and turning it over to its domestic producers sure sounds like protectionism to me, if you could call it just that and not out and out economic warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/23 "2011-04-26T19:51:43Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > When I’m president of my own Mormon super-galaxy, I’m going to sic my goon squad on the OP and shove my throbbing comparative advantage down his cite’s throat (I’ll even hire someone to read it thoroughly for me). Fuck protectionism in every form. You and your goon squad will be going up against most of America. So please, bring that goon squad and your “throbbing comparative advantage”. It’ll make a fine pair of petrified dice swinging from someone’s rear view window. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/24 "2011-04-26T19:58:05Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > Sorry. Wrong example, I just know the ones that work out. But I’m sure that because one company got screwed, everyone does. So your one imaginary company that doesn’t get screwed somehow trumps Cisco, Chevrolet, and a legion of other companies that have been stung by China’s intellectual property theft? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/25 "2011-04-26T19:59:09Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > China stealing its foreign investor’s intellectual property and turning it over to its domestic producers sure sounds like protectionism to me, if you could call it just that and not out and out economic warfare. We should do what China is doing, just to teach them (and all the free traders here) a lesson: [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/business/economy/12leonhardt.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/business/economy/12leonhardt.html) > [@](#): > > In some cases, Beijing has insisted that products sold in China must not only be made there but be conceived and designed there. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/26 "2011-04-26T20:00:15Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > It is not just the free traders. > > Slee Sure it is. There are no anti-offshoring people on this forum. You pretty much all drink the purple kool-aid. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/27 "2011-04-26T20:07:51Z")
"In some cases, Beijing has insisted that products sold in China must not only be made there but be conceived and designed there. " That’s precisely what people do in the US. They insist people buy American. Problem is that Americans don’t give a shit and buy what ever is cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/28 "2011-04-26T20:11:50Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > We should do what China is doing, just to teach them (and all the free traders here) a lesson: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/business/economy/12leonhardt.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/business/economy/12leonhardt.html) God damn you are a truly special kind of stupid. Why do you keep posting random sentences from these articles without reading all the way through? For example, _Still, China’s leaders have reason to be nervous about all the barriers they have built. China’s elite, in government and business, are deeply concerned that their companies remain unable to create truly innovative products. The obsession with the fact that no Chinese citizen has won a scientific Nobel Prize stems partly from this worry._ So Beijing my \*insist \*people buy local, but that doesn’t mean there is local to buy. They still have to buy (or borrow) MS Office like the rest of us. And also from the SAME article: \*Opening up your economy to more competition **may bring some short-term pain** , but it also forces companies to become stronger and more creative — or to wither. Competition breeds innovation. \* So what was it you were proposing again? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/29 "2011-04-26T20:50:37Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Maybe you didn’t comprehend my original position? Oh, I think that’s pretty much a given with all of your threads. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/30 "2011-04-26T22:21:26Z")
Ah…the smell of batshit in the morning! It smells like…another Le Jac thread! Did you miss the last one? Fear not…it’s the same thing over and over again! If you’ve read one, you’ve read them all! -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/31 "2011-04-26T22:48:33Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > You and your goon squad will be going up against most of America. You still haven’t proven this. You may think you have, but you haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/32 "2011-04-26T23:09:48Z")
By the strangest coincidence, and for no reason whatsoever, I thought of the Fellowes company hours ago, as an organization hopelessly rooted in the past. You know, all those boring dreary things for handling paper, like dividers and hangers and file folders. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/33 "2011-04-27T00:25:51Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > So your one imaginary company that doesn’t get screwed somehow trumps Cisco, Chevrolet, and a legion of other companies that have been stung by China’s intellectual property theft? If you read though to the end of my post, I specifically address that there are dangers to doing business in China. It’s a risk, and no one isn’t saying otherwise, except you. > [@](#): > > Let this serve as a warning to everyone who says this can’t happen! Everyone I know who does business in / with China knows this. It’s a given. If you take an example of personal safety, there are certain areas in America which have higher theft rates. There are places where you can leave the front door uplocked and other places where you shouldn’t be out alone after dark. It’s only stupid when you move into an unsafe area and assume you’re still in your little town with no crime. So what’s new here? That Chinese companies can screw you? People know that. That US / Japanese / French / German / Italian / Korean companies fall victim? People know that. That there is danger in dealing with that country but also the possibility of making money? People know that. So? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/34 "2011-04-27T02:05:46Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > You still haven’t proven this. You may think you have, but you haven’t. Can’t you see? I, who in this very thread have decried China’s intellectual theft in the strongest possible terms, am a staunch offshoring supporter! Certainly moreso than the majority of this country! Le Jacqueoff has spoken! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/35 "2011-04-27T14:31:07Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > people on the Straight Dope can’t even comprehend clearly spoken words and they routinely engage in spin doctoring and go through the most contorted gyrations to claim that any cite that discredits “free trade” doesn’t mean what it means. It’s like Newspeak University in here. When it comes to economics the posters at the Straight Dope are as insular, ignorant and uncreative as any group of people who manage to learn how to breathe and walk straight. Its not that they’re stupid its that they’re dogmatic. China is engaging in protectionism, mercantalism, and a whole bunch of other ism’s and some people are afraid of retaliating because retaliation is bad for everyone so their answer is to keep letting China screw us from behind. If China was protecting nascent industries (lets say they were trying to develop a domestic manufacturing base so they put up protectionist barriers to protect domestic manufacturing) or trumping unreasonable intellectual property rights (do we really need to protect software for the life of the programmer plus 70 years (or 96 years if created by a corporation)?), then I could go along with it but they have the alrgest manufacturing base in the world and they are pirating software right out of the gate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/36 "2011-04-27T14:35:02Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Yes, Almond Joy has had success, Mounds has not. Because sometimes you feel like a nut. And sometimes you don’t want to read Le Jacquelope threads. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/37 "2011-04-27T15:07:59Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Oh, I think that’s pretty much a given with all of your threads. Ah, I see. Your inability to comprehend what I write is somehow my problem and not yours. Got it. Well, at least it is in that broom closet you call your mind. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Can’t you see? I, who in this very thread have decried China’s intellectual theft in the strongest possible terms, am a staunch offshoring supporter! Certainly moreso than the majority of this country! Le Jacqueoff has spoken! People can easily be in favor of offshoring while opposing intellectual property theft, Dudovic. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its not that they’re stupid its that they’re dogmatic. China is engaging in protectionism, mercantalism, and a whole bunch of other ism’s and some people are afraid of retaliating because retaliation is bad for everyone so their answer is to keep letting China screw us from behind. It’s like dealing with the schoolyard bully. He’ll always keep coming at you until you retaliate. But if you do, only then does the violence become a bad thing. Everyone is ready to cry foul if America retaliates, but they’re not willing to cry foul at all the trade barriers that China puts up. I say fuck fear, damn the torpedoes, give China a taste of its own medicine. I’d rather face a global economic mess than let some country ass-rape us like this. At some point you gotta stand up for yourself no matter what. > [@](#): > > If China was protecting nascent industries (lets say they were trying to develop a domestic manufacturing base so they put up protectionist barriers to protect domestic manufacturing) or trumping unreasonable intellectual property rights (do we really need to protect software for the life of the programmer plus 70 years (or 96 years if created by a corporation)?), then I could go along with it but they have the alrgest manufacturing base in the world and they are pirating software right out of the gate. And hardware, too. Watch out for the iPed; no really, that’s a real device. Guess what it competes against. Those of us on the anti-offshoring side are saying “I told you so”… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/38 "2011-04-27T15:11:41Z")
You are a full throttle, constant Almond Joy kind of guy, aren’t you Jac? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/39 "2011-04-27T23:15:58Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Can’t you see? I, who in this very thread have decried China’s intellectual theft in the strongest possible terms, am a staunch offshoring supporter! Certainly moreso than the majority of this country! Le Jacqueoff has spoken! Chinese intellectual theft has been well known in the past, but when our corporations moved our manufacturing there, they took everything with them. They gave it all away so they could do the job almost as well as we were doing it, but cheaper. We moved the best of everything there. They got all the intellectual property, the best computers and whatever was needed. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400/40 "2011-04-28T03:45:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Chinese intellectual theft has been well known in the past, but when our corporations moved our manufacturing there, they took everything with them. They gave it all away so they could do the job almost as well as we were doing it, but cheaper. We moved the best of everything there. They got all the intellectual property, the best computers and whatever was needed. American Corporations are like abused wives coming back time and again to their abusive ChiCom husbands\*. It’s all about the money. At least until they get dumped penniless on the street, bruises and broken bones and all. Which would make the workers the children who get royally screwed over the most in the end. - to differentiate the Chinese Government from its people. You know how eager these idiots are to call this a “hate the brown people” movement. (Nevermind all the American brown people who are hurt by offshoring, they don’t count - they’re just evil filthy AMERICANS!!!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-send-jobs-overseas-youll-be-run-out-of-business-hah/579400.md?page=3)