# If you don't want to do "team-building" exercises **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148 "2010-09-26T22:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/181 "2010-10-05T03:04:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > > > When, exactly, did we switch from “someone with enough sense and self-respect to hold this nonsense in contempt” and “asshole”? > > I think around when SteveG1 tried to wrassle his boss. I didn’t actually challenge my boss to a cage match. I actually have gotten along with MOST of my direct supervisors. Because I get shit done. When anyone else is too busy or (how convenient and over used) doesn’t know how. Fancy that. Added on edit: fucking idiot ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/182 "2010-10-05T03:14:25Z")
To add to the above, last I checked, this IS The Pit. If your little feelings are hurt, I say again this is The Pit. Get over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/183 "2010-10-05T05:48:51Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > I’m not sure of the point you’re making for this thread - we’re calling the bullshit corporate culture bullshit, and you seem to be saying the same thing. > > Oh I believe most of it is bullshit. I’m just trying to explain some of the thinking that goes into it. A lot of it is very much premediated. They seem to take their playbook from the James C. Collins management books “Good to Great” and “Built to Last”. It’s a side affect of having super-educated management who is completely distanced from actually having to ever implement anything. That explains a lot, actually - the massive disconnect between the people making the decisions and the people getting them implemented all over them. The show “Undercover Boss” intrigues me for this reason - owners of a company finally get to see things they may have never seen before (and in all honesty it isn’t always their fault - people don’t act the same way around the company owner, naturally). ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/184 "2010-10-05T06:05:14Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That explains a lot, actually - the massive disconnect between the people making the decisions and the people getting them implemented all over them. The show “Undercover Boss” intrigues me for this reason - owners of a company finally get to see things they may have never seen before (and in all honesty it isn’t always their fault - people don’t act the same way around the company owner, naturally). I especially liked how the CEO of Hooters reacted at the sight of the jerk manager who ordered his workers to go dip their face in a bowl of beans to compete for time off. Have they gotten a hold of any nasty CEO-equivalents yet? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/185 "2010-10-05T07:22:12Z")
> [@](#): > > If my store has a closing time of 9 pm, then the customers need to be made to leave at 9, not let them keep the poor closers from actually closing and going home. And if the store has a policy of NOT ushering customers out of the door at closing, then the company should not have a hissy fit if the clerks don’t clock out at nine on the dot every night. On a related note, it’s perfectly acceptable for a company to want people to show up about 15 minutes before their shift, alert and ready to work. However, it’s NOT acceptable to put them to work until they’ve actually clocked in if they work hourly. If you’re paying someone for 35 or 40 hours a week, then you don’t get to have them work for 36.5 or 41.5 hours that week. It goes back to that “respect is a two way street” thing I talked about. Sure, if there’s an emergency, then you can put people to work…AFTER THEY CLOCK IN. Anything else is illegal (in the US) and unethical (anywhere in the world). I know that management is salaried, and I also know of at least one company that tried to get almost the whole damn staff declared as management of some sort or another, simply so they wouldn’t have to pay overtime. > [@](#): > > I especially liked how the CEO of Hooters reacted at the sight of the jerk manager who ordered his workers to go dip their face in a bowl of beans to compete for time off. I saw that one. MY favorite part was when he was trying to work a street promotion, and he learned that a lot of people consider the “Hooters girls” to be trashy. Gee, you hire women to wear skimpy outfits, train them to be flirtatious, promote them as being “friendly”, and your whole business plan revolves around being tasteless and tacky…and you’re surprised that people consider the waitresses to be trashy? And that jerk manager should not have been allowed to keep his job. He did that shit because he saw nothing wrong with it. He’s sorry that he got caught, but I very much doubt that he’ll change his ways when he think that he can get away with it. I do think that the owner respects his waitresses and cares about them and the rest of his workers. I also think that he’s believed his own publicity. He’s the son of the guy (or one of the guys, can’t remember which) who founded the place, so he views Hooters as a positive thing. However, IME, Hooters restaurants are regarded as low class, they’re not known for the quality of their food, they’re in bad parts of town for the most part, and their customers are not regarded as being very classy, either. Yeah, that’s the demographic they’re going for, so why is he surprised at the public perception of Hooters and Hooters Girls as being low class? > [@](#): > > Get me fired? Who’d do all the work? Go back and read the details of my posts. Read the part where I said MY TECH LEAD WAS JUST AS PISSED OFF AS I WAS, shit for brains. The moron trying to dictate to me was DUMPING HIS WORK AND HAD NO AUTHORITY. Too many managers/owners are willing to eat the BS that some people try to feed them. It’s great to be a people person, someone everyone wants to work with. It’s great to have the customers love you. But if someone is not doing his/her job, sooner or later it’s going to show. I’ve worked with salesclerks who were absolutely fantastic at selling. The way they were managing to make big sales was to give customers unauthorized discounts, or just plain give stuff away with purchases. This is a great way to gain customer loyalty, if management knows and approves. And it’s also a great way to get everyone in that store fired, too, when the inventory shows a lot of shrinkage, because the management will believe that either everyone knew about it, or everyone SHOULD have known about it, and it’s easier to just fire everyone and start with a fresh staff. There’s a lot of people who are willing to dump their work onto co-workers, and most co-workers are willing to do a bit extra to help someone out now and then. After all, if you help someone out, they’re more willing to help YOU out, in most cases. But some people try to dump all their work on other people all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/186 "2010-10-05T08:31:28Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > Oh I believe most of it is bullshit. I’m just trying to explain some of the thinking that goes into it. A lot of it is very much premediated. They seem to take their playbook from the James C. Collins management books “Good to Great” and “Built to Last”. It’s a side affect of having super-educated management who is completely distanced from actually having to ever implement anything. > > That explains a lot, actually - the massive disconnect between the people making the decisions and the people getting them implemented all over them. The show “Undercover Boss” intrigues me for this reason - owners of a company finally get to see things they may have never seen before (and in all honesty it isn’t always their fault - people don’t act the same way around the company owner, naturally). As a consultant, one of the worst sources of pain is that most clients do not give us any kind of access to the “peons”, not even to site managers; often, the people we deal with are all from Home Office and have never set foot in a single one of their factories, warehouses, construction sites or stores. Those companies are also the ones which have impossible policies, post-its stuck to monitors with lists of passwords (including the passwords of several other people), etc. The people who act as our contacts know what must the yearly report look like, but have no idea what goes into it and don’t give a shit about how much work other people will have to do in order to get it Just So. Those projects always go over-calendar, over-budget and under-satisfaction. The clients who give us access to people at all levels are the ones whose projects go smoother, whose end-users (at all levels) are satisfied with the final results, and which even sometimes manage to not go over budget. Don’t try explaining that to the first group, though: it’s being tried, there’s articles and books and whatnot on it, but they’re just not ever going to hear the message. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/187 "2010-10-05T13:41:03Z")
**SteveG1** , you can’t “hurt my feelings” because you are nothing to me. Just some anonymous angry jerk on a message board. I am merely baffled why you are projecting all of your job woes on me. Of course your angry. You’ve been at the same stupid job for 20 years. “Superior promotions” but only “acting tech lead” and “acting supervisor”? Yeah, sounds like you are on a fast track to success. Your coworkers don’t like and respect you. They voted you “Union VP” because no one else wants to deal with that crap. You’re bullshit. All these things you claim to have done and yet still grinding away in a shitty low level role? You’re so good at your job but never thought to maybe get an MBA and take on a real position with real responsibility? I mean if you think you can do a better job. “Oh boo hoo! My coworkers were dumping work on me!” What a freakin gaylord. > [@Nava](#): > > As a consultant, one of the worst sources of pain is that most clients do not give us any kind of access to the “peons”, not even to site managers; often, the people we deal with are all from Home Office and have never set foot in a single one of their factories, warehouses, construction sites or stores. Those companies are also the ones which have impossible policies, post-its stuck to monitors with lists of passwords (including the passwords of several other people), etc. The people who act as our contacts know what must the yearly report look like, but have no idea what goes into it and don’t give a shit about how much work other people will have to do in order to get it Just So. Those projects always go over-calendar, over-budget and under-satisfaction. > > The clients who give us access to people at all levels are the ones whose projects go smoother, whose end-users (at all levels) are satisfied with the final results, and which even sometimes manage to not go over budget. Don’t try explaining that to the first group, though: it’s being tried, there’s articles and books and whatnot on it, but they’re just not ever going to hear the message. A lot of management types are highly educated and self-important. They graduated from the best schools and probably got their start in prestigeous corporate management training programs or at consulting forms like Accenture, McKinsey or the Big-4. They often consider the actual “doing stuff” parts of the company to be beneath them. Or at the very least they would be so distanced from that work it would be nothing to them but a line on a status report. When you are distanced from actually having to get something done or make it work, it becomes very easy to think of it in abstract terms. And the more abstract you think of it, the harder it can be to implement in reality. That’s sort of why being a middle manager is such a hard job. You are the last layer between the fantasy of the super duper enthusiastic MBA management geniuses and the people who actually have to get that bullshit to work. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/188 "2010-10-05T13:58:50Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I saw that one. MY favorite part was when he was trying to work a street promotion, and he learned that a lot of people consider the “Hooters girls” to be trashy. Gee, you hire women to wear skimpy outfits, train them to be flirtatious, promote them as being “friendly”, and your whole business plan revolves around being tasteless and tacky…and you’re surprised that people consider the waitresses to be trashy? And that jerk manager should not have been allowed to keep his job. He did that shit because he saw nothing wrong with it. He’s sorry that he got caught, but I very much doubt that he’ll change his ways when he think that he can get away with it. That boy was begging for a sexual harassment lawsuit, if not from what he did do than what he might decide he can get away with later on. The CEO was in a bit of a quandry with the people who think Hooters girls are trashy. What can he do? Dress them up? The problem is his family founded that business on the premise of luring in arrested adolescent males - boobs with a side of chicken wings. If he changes course he loses that niche market edge and becomes just another chicken wings competitor. His business would get _dead_ in a hurry. Now I can’t forget to mention the HIGHLIGHT of that episode… the woman manager who got down and dirty with her workers and who knew how to really MANAGE. > [@](#): > > I do think that the owner respects his waitresses and cares about them and the rest of his workers. I also think that he’s believed his own publicity. He’s the son of the guy (or one of the guys, can’t remember which) who founded the place, so he views Hooters as a positive thing. However, IME, Hooters restaurants are regarded as low class, they’re not known for the quality of their food, they’re in bad parts of town for the most part, and their customers are not regarded as being very classy, either. Yeah, that’s the demographic they’re going for, so why is he surprised at the public perception of Hooters and Hooters Girls as being low class? The problem for him is how does he escape this image and save his business? We’re talking about a total reboot of the company. The big question is how long will Hooters last? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/189 "2010-10-05T14:57:12Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > **SteveG1** , you can’t “hurt my feelings” because you are nothing to me. Just some anonymous angry jerk on a message board. I am merely baffled why you are projecting all of your job woes on me. > > Of course your angry. You’ve been at the same stupid job for 20 years. “Superior promotions” but only “acting tech lead” and “acting supervisor”? Yeah, sounds like you are on a fast track to success. > > Your coworkers don’t like and respect you. They voted you “Union VP” because no one else wants to deal with that crap. > > You’re bullshit. All these things you claim to have done and yet still grinding away in a shitty low level role? You’re so good at your job but never thought to maybe get an MBA and take on a real position with real responsibility? I mean if you think you can do a better job. > > “Oh boo hoo! My coworkers were dumping work on me!” What a freakin gaylord. And you aren’t shit to me. Same stupid job? You come here and take my place. Good luck with that. You wouldn’t know where to start and I wouldn’t train you. I had to figure it out myself. Shitty low level? I’m a GS12, Step 10 engineer. That’s as high as we go without being management these days. I’ve had a hand in the design of the F16, A7, P3, SSME and ISS. I created much of the database we use here for our records and many other sites have come to use and they come to us (me) for advice and assistance. What have you done? Not a fucking thing real. Sometimes, the attitudes are the result of some underlying cause, but that might mean an asshole like you would have to deal with it, instead of the usual “be a team and do ownership stuff wne deal with it yoruself” crap I’m a “gaylord”? I’d LOVE to see you say that to me in person. I’d break my damn foot off in your ass. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/190 "2010-10-05T15:21:55Z")
**SteveG1** , I don’t care. Go off and beat your wife or something. I bet that’s not all you’d like to do with my ass, princess. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/191 "2010-10-05T15:25:07Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > A lot of management types are highly educated and self-important. They graduated from the best schools and probably got their start in prestigeous corporate management training programs or at consulting forms like Accenture, McKinsey or the Big-4. They often consider the actual “doing stuff” parts of the company to be beneath them. Or at the very least they would be so distanced from that work it would be nothing to them but a line on a status report. > > When you are distanced from actually having to get something done or make it work, it becomes very easy to think of it in abstract terms. And the more abstract you think of it, the harder it can be to implement in reality. That’s sort of why being a middle manager is such a hard job. You are the last layer between the fantasy of the super duper enthusiastic MBA management geniuses and the people who actually have to get that bullshit to work. This entire thread is about the results when middle management fails to perform that function, and as a result some idiotic “team-building exercise” is inflicted upon the workers instead of being shuffled off into a paperwork black hole and forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/192 "2010-10-05T16:02:46Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > I don’t know why you are being so hostile to a bunch of strangers you don’t even know, but I have to believe you must be at least as big an asshole at work. > > > > Speaking as a manager in some pretty big companies, here is the deal: > > > > I’d try to have you fired regardless of how good you think your work is. And here’s why. A crappy attitude like yours is infecteous. You probably make your coworkers miserable and you undermine your bosses authority. No one wants a malcontent fermenting rebellion in their group. > > > > Yes, I want you to “pretend” as if you like being there and like getting along with your coworkers. You don’t need to grin like an idiot all day, but I expect my people to be respectful and courteous and professional and I will treat them the same way. You see, the truth is I don’t really care about you. Not really. At the end of the day, both our careers are better served by me being your boss, not your friend. Which is not to say we can’t become friends eventually. But I’m your boss first. > > > > As a mid-level manager, I actually have little control over company policy or things like Super Fun Team Outing Day. Those things are thought up by some idiot sociology major in Human Resources. My role is making sure projects get done and apparently a lot of asskissing to more senior management (which isn’t a “core competency” of mine). > > > > And believe me, if it comes down to ruining your career or allowing you to ruin mine with your attitude or incompetance, guess which one of us will be applying for unemployment. > > > > Yes, there are a lot of incompetant managers out there. You have managers who don’t understand what they are managing beyond a vague theoretical level. You have managers who don’t care about anything but their own self-agrandizing. Some are arrogant entitled snobs. Some are just plan lazy or stupid. But the fact of the matter is that it is hard to manage people well. Not only do you have to get the work done, you need to deal with all the crazy personalities as well. > > > > Everyone thinks their boss is an idiot until they have to do his job. > > I don’t want you to be my friend. I want you to be a manager, That means you MANAGE. That doesn’t mean you set yourself up like some king or hide in your damn office. It doesn’t mean you let the wannabe pukes run roughshod over the rest. You fucking MANAGE. Here’s the deal. I work the electronics (waivers, deviations, inspection requirements, MRB,s etc ). I work the software (spec review, design review, program review, code walkthrough, all of it) I administer and run and maintain our local database (thanks to me and it, we had a “center of excellence” recognition). I fill in doing inspections out on the floor. I wrote the guidelines telling the floor inspectors what to do. When we have audits, people send the auditors to ME for answers. I wrote a lot of the guidelines and procedures we use. You know what CMM is? Well we are operating at Level 1 maybe level 2, where you depend on the “heroics” of a few to carry the rest. > > I’ve filled in as acting Tech Lead, I’ve filled in as acting Supervisor. Guess what. Shit gets done. It generally gets done faster and with fewer fuck ups. And nobody gets their tit in a wringer either. > > Get me fired? Who’d do all the work? Go back and read the details of my posts. Read the part where I said MY TECH LEAD WAS JUST AS PISSED OFF AS I WAS, shit for brains. The moron trying to dictate to me was DUMPING HIS WORK AND HAD NO AUTHORITY. GOT IT??? So you managed at “some pretty big companies”. Uh huh, Couldn’t stay at one? Too hard? I been at the same place for over 20 years and I’ve seen pukes come and go. I’ve had a 30 plus year career and guess what - the only one who currently dislikes me is the little wannabe who tried to order me around with NO AUTHORITY. Somehow, I have had MANY sustained superior promotions and I have boxes full of awards. I’ve seen your kind come and go. Get me fired? You’d be better served watching your own ass. Go after me, and you’d have my undivided attention. I’d do my best to end your career if you went after me. I’d have so many grievances, ULPs, and paper on you, you’d be gone long before me. > > Here’s something else to think on. > > I’m the Union VP, chosen by my CO WORKERS, who like, trust and respect me. I’m the guy who stands for the employees when someone like you would tries to fuck them over, and I’d have your ass. Go on you power trip, you’d be the one gone. In a flash. Chew on THAT. > > When we had a loony physically threatening (yeah it really happened) people repeatedly, management did NOTHING. Isn’t that their job? To do something? Instead they protected him and coddled hm because they were scared of him. Imagine that. He didn’t stop his aggression against co-workers until I personally offered to take his sorry ass out. When the latest jerk (WHO HAS NO AUTHORITY) pulled his crap the only management who did anything was the Tech lead, and you keep ignoring that too, > > So your some big boss? Color me under fucking whelmed. Know what you need? Ice cream cone. Turn that frown upside down. ETA: Don’t take that the wrong way. Just trying to lighten the mood. Pretty decent rant, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/193 "2010-10-05T16:37:22Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The Yes Man who never actually DOES the work will be the one climbing the ladder, on someone else’s back. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle. You’re an incompetent lickspittle whose only skills are kissing ass and taking credit for other people’s work. Accordingly, your idiot boss loves you. When you get high enough to start promoting people yourself, who do you promote? More people like yourself, obviously. If you promoted truly competent people, you’d be fucked out of a job. > [@msmith537](#): > > I’d try to have you fired regardless of how good you think your work is. And here’s why. A crappy attitude like yours is infecteous. You probably make your coworkers miserable and you undermine your bosses authority. No one wants a malcontent fermenting rebellion in their group. 1.) No, he’s probably someone who everyone likes and respects except for shitty management and the abovementioned lickspittles. 2.) The word you want is _ **fomenting** _. > [@aruvqan](#): > > You should try reading Customers Suck sometime, for the lowly peons viewpoint at how management could actually improve. Unfortunately the jackasses who all seem to be writing the policies and books that are so damned popular with management have probably never worked as a lowly peon in their little sheltered lives and have no idea how soulstealing and demeaning corporate tends to treat the poor front line employees. Shit. Rolls. Downhill. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > Well, holding your boss and your job in contempt kind of means your an asshole. Or stupid, since why would you work every day when you hold your boss and your job in contempt. Some bosses entirely deserve to be held in contempt. And if you think it’s stupid to keep a job that you hate, you must have been handed your first job by Daddy when you failed out of whatever college he bribed your way into. > [@SteveG1](#): > > I don’t want you to be my friend. I want you to be a manager, That means you MANAGE. [snip] This entire post? Grade A+ fucking asskicking rant. **msmith537** , you got fucking owned. > [@msmith537](#): > > I bet that’s not all you’d like to do with my ass, princess. Hey, anybody who disagrees with you must be gay? Why do you seeing gay as being a negative thing? Would you find it acceptable to say, “If you think that, you’re so stupid you must be Black”? What other deliciously retarded viewpoints must you hold? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/194 "2010-10-05T17:49:57Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Some bosses entirely deserve to be held in contempt. And if you think it’s stupid to keep a job that you hate, you must have been handed your first job by Daddy when you failed out of whatever college he bribed your way into. Actually I was handed my first job at the age of 15 by my daddy … who taught me to work at my job whether or not I actually _liked_ it or the people I worked with, because it was my job to be in that place, doing that job to collect my paycheck … Unlike a lot of kids that had a similar background, I actually got a work ethic from my dad. Only free ride I ever got was in the form of a family trust endowment for an education [well, that and a scholarship I earned through being a good scholar and not slacking off in high school.] I am of the firm belief that requiring management candidates to have a business degree is mainly to blame, when management came up from the work force, you had people who both understood the industrial/sales aspect of business, and understood how the business actually worked from the bottom up. They could make rational decisions based on concrete experience, not wafty bullshit business theories that some idiot decided upon without actually knowing anything ‘real world’ combined with the idea that you should grab as much cash as fast as possible from your investments, instead of husbanding the business as it grows for slow steady profits is the problem. Also the problem with the whole offshoring that is dragging the country down [combined with those wonderful investment assholes that gutted corporations and fucked up the mortgage industry] is that it is gutting the country of a trained workforce, and concentrating the cash in the hands of a few greedy people that have no interest in the stability of the country as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/195 "2010-10-05T18:01:12Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I am of the firm belief that requiring management candidates to have a business degree is mainly to blame I see merit in this view. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/196 "2010-10-05T19:19:05Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I am of the firm belief that requiring management candidates to have a business degree is mainly to blame, when management came up from the work force, you had people who both understood the industrial/sales aspect of business, and understood how the business actually worked from the bottom up. The business degree isn’t to blame. How is actually educating yourself about accounting, finance and marketing a bad thing if you want to manage a business? I haven’t seen much of a correlation between being a shitty manager and having a business degree. There are shitty managers both with degrees and without. The problem (as stated in the aforementioned Peter Principle) is that just because you are a good individual contributor does not mean you will be great at running a business. And the higher you go in a company, the less your job has to do with “how do we make these widgets 10% more efficiently” and more to do with figuring out where the widget market will be in a few years and how your company will compete. > [@Shot From Guns](#): > > This entire post? Grade A+ fucking asskicking rant. msmith537, you got fucking owned. Again. I’m not sure what \*\* SteveG1’s\*\*psychotic ranting has anything to do with me. I’m not his boss. But if it keeping him happy enough to keep him from going all Falling Down for a few more days, more power to him. > [@Shot From Guns](#): > > 1.) No, he’s probably someone who everyone likes and respects except for shitty management and the abovementioned lickspittles. Maybe he’s the kind of person who thinks all management is “shitty” simply because they are management? > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Hey, anybody who disagrees with you must be gay? Why do you seeing gay as being a negative thing? Would you find it acceptable to say, “If you think that, you’re so stupid you must be Black”? What other deliciously retarded viewpoints must you hold? Who said I was being negative?😉 And what’s your problem with the mentally disabled? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/197 "2010-10-05T21:05:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Maybe he’s the kind of person who thinks all management is “shitty” simply because they are management? I see zero evidence of that. Please provide a cite or shut the fuck up, plzkthx\<3. > [@](#): > > And what’s your problem with the mentally disabled? They’re people just like anyone else–some of them delightful and fun, some of them assholes–who have a demonstrable problem with their cognitive abilities. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/198 "2010-10-05T21:15:38Z")
I wouldn’t work for you. I’d put in paperwork and get reassigned or relocated before I’d want to deal with you, As for the “get you fired whatever it takes” and the “princess” comments, I’d have you up on charges and end your career just with that. Let’s see. Harrassment, hostile workplace, there are plenty of regulations and statutes. Yes, I would end your career. From our contract: \*D. Labor-Management Relations Committee (LMRC) 1. The parties agree to form a labor-management relations committee to meet on a quarterly basis for the purpose of cooperative and collaborative dealings in resolving ongoing or reasonably foreseeable issues. … 2. The committee may discuss matters of mutual concern pertaining to personnel policies and practices and working conditions that have unit-wide impact. Individual complaints, grievances or appeals will not be discussed.\* I am ON this council, which means I would have direct and immediate access to YOUR superiors. _A. Consistent with 5 U.S.C. § 7114(a)(2)(A), as the exclusive representative of unit employees, the Union shall be given the opportunity to be represented at any formal discussion between one or more representatives of the Agency and one or more employees or their representatives concerning any grievance or any personnel policy or practices or other general condition of employment. B. The DCMA Council Local will be advised in advance of the time, location and general nature of the subject matter to be addressed at these formal discussions. Normally the Agency will provide such notification two (2) working days in advance. Copies of any briefing charts/documents provided to the bargaining unit employees will be provided to the DCMA Council Local prior to the formal discussion. C. During the formal discussion, the Union representative will be permitted to respond to issues affecting bargaining unit employees and any comments made about the Union and/or its views._ Try that “princess” remark there, I’d own you. Further, any bargaining unit person could REFUSE to talk to you unless a union rep is present, due to YOUR attitude, and per the contract, you’d be forced to OBEY. _Upon a written request demonstrating a particularized need, the Union has the right to reasonable access to data normally maintained by the Agency pertaining to personnel and conditions of employment. Release of data to the Union is subject to applicable regulatory and legal restrictions._ By law, I can use your own records and data against you. _Employees have the right and shall be encouraged to bring matters of personal concern regarding conditions of employment to the attention of the appropriate Agency or Union representative at the lowest level capable of resolving the matter._ Which means you don’t get to chalk it up to the individual’s attitude when there is a problem they expect you as management to correct. _A. A representative of the Union shall be given an opportunity to be present at any examination of an employee in connection with an investigation if: (1) the employee reasonably believes that the examination may result in a disciplinary action against them; and (2) the employee requests such representation. When such an examination is held, every reasonable effort will be made to schedule it at a time and site, which is acceptable to all of the participants. B. When an employee exercises their rights under this section and when the DCMA Council Local representative of the employee is not immediately available, the meeting will be deferred for a reasonable period of time to permit the presence of the DCMA Council Local representative if the Agency elects to hold the meeting. C. The Agency shall annually inform all members of the bargaining unit of their rights, as set forth in this Section. D. The Agency will recognize the employee’s right to seek DCMA Council Local representation at any time after the employee has been asked to make a statement about another bargaining unit employee should the employee_ You don’t get to play your power game in the absence of witnesses or in the absence of someone who can stop you. Further, I could set YOUR meeting to MY convenience. _A. It is the Agency’s policy to promote a safe working environment for its employees. The Agency and the Union are committed to working with employees to maintain a work environment free from violence, threats of violence, harassment, intimidation and other disruptive behavior. B. Violence, threats, harassment, intimidation and other disruptive behavior in the workplace will not be tolerated. Such behavior could include oral or written statements, gestures or expressions that communicate a direct threat of physical harm. Reports of incidents will be dealt with appropriately. Individuals who commit such acts may be removed from the premises, subjected to disciplinary action and/or subjected to criminal penalties._ It would be incredibly easy to get you on intimidation and harrassment, if you made the “I’m gonna get you and fire you no matter what” Or, if in the case of the office psycho, take you down for scolding the workers about attitudes and refusing to deal with the office psycho/sociopath. I can keep going. Let’s just say I would destroy you. Added on edit: From the Federal Agreement Contract, “AGREEMENT BETWEEN DEFENSE CONTRACT MANAGEMENT AGENCY AND AFGE COUNCIL 170” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/199 "2010-10-05T21:28:46Z")
Less than three, **SteveG1**. The smackdowns just keep coming. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/200 "2010-10-05T21:33:30Z")
And this is why I’m making an effort to accommodate my employees within the bounds of their job duties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148.md?page=11)