# If you don't want to do "team-building" exercises **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148 "2010-09-26T22:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/81 "2010-09-27T17:37:24Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > > [@Dogzilla](#): > > > > My team typically chose some form of service project. > > In my experience service projects are the least bad team-builds. They accommodate a variety of ages and physical skill levels, and maybe possibly accomplish something for a charity. If you absolutely must do a team-build, make it a service project. My team chose to go that way because it’s basically skill-neutral. You have to be careful, though, you don’t want to just sign up for Habitat for Humanity. There’s always one employee who’s nursing an injury or has a disability and you can’t pick an activity that excludes someone (like having a steak luncheon when you know you have vegetarians on staff) if your purpose is team _building_. I know that seems obvious and logical, but I am never surprised at the lack of logic and reason within the ranks of management. Lotta ass covering and maneuvering though. I also want to make a note that all of my teambuilder retreats were optional (and there were truly no repercussions – I did not give a shit if you attended or not), held offsite, and were during business hours. Everyone got paid. A couple times, we just had a potluck picnic at a local park. Who doesn’t want to pull a day’s pay for playing in the park eating grilled food and hanging out? I think the most important aspect of making a teambuilder as painless as possible for the employees is giving the employees some control over the choices-- and giving them _real_ choices. My team didn’t need a boot-camp style obstacle course to learn how to communicate with each other better; all they needed was a couple hours of no-pressure no deadlines in which to just get to know each other a little better. After the retreats, I always had really productive teams because they bonded over planning, and choosing, and executing their own teambuilder. All I did, really, was give them permission to do it and authorized company funds to cover lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/82 "2010-09-27T18:58:01Z")
Dogzilla, it sounds like you’ve done it well. I’ve done good team building and bad team building. I do enjoy (although I know not everyone does) the Myers Briggs sort of team building exercises when they are well facilitated to help everyone understand everyone else - not exercises in putting others down. I wouldn’t like mandatory team building or near mandatory team building outside of business hours - but when that’s been part of the corporate culture, I haven’t taken the job (I’ve been offered jobs where that’s the corporate culture - never ended up at one). I’ve managed, and I’ve never worked for a company where I have had the choice between “team building” or giving people a raise or a bonus - those have always been three different pools of money to spend. So I can not spend the money and take everyone bowling - and not check that thing off on the “engage in at least one team building exercise with your team” on my performance review if that is part of the metric - or I can take everyone bowling (or try and find something better, bowling is always surprisingly popular though - I don’t like to bowl, but apparently, a lot of people think its a good time). Sometimes managers take a lot of time and energy to come up with team building activities that fit the group as a whole and that everyone will enjoy. My husband took a group of geeky IT people to see The Two Towers or something on opening day - they all loved it. But it was like six people he knew well enough to know that it had been a huge topic of conversation for everyone and something everyone wanted to do. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/83 "2010-09-27T18:58:59Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I also want to make a note that all of my teambuilder retreats were optional (and there were truly no repercussions – I did not give a shit if you attended or not), held offsite, and were during business hours. Everyone got paid. A couple times, we just had a potluck picnic at a local park. Who doesn’t want to pull a day’s pay for playing in the park eating grilled food and hanging out? Me. Doing that sort of crap just means I have that much more real, productive work to do later–who can enjoy a stupid picnic when you know that tomorrow, you have two days of work to do instead of just one. And if I choose to not participate, I have to pick up the slack for my coworkers who decide to take the day off and fart around while there’s real work to be done. Really–it’s not that hard: recognize my efforts and pay me. Or give me time off with pay. Or leave me alone and let me do my _job_. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/84 "2010-09-27T19:03:01Z")
I think Alice (from Dilbert) said it best: “WE WANT MORE MONEY, NOT MORE DANCING DOGS! M-O-N-E-Y!” ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/85 "2010-09-27T19:32:24Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > > [@Dogzilla](#): > > > > Who doesn’t want to pull a day’s pay for playing in the park eating grilled food and hanging out? > > Me. > > Doing that sort of crap just means I have that much more real, productive work to do later–who can enjoy a stupid picnic when you know that tomorrow, you have two days of work to do instead of just one. And if I choose to not participate, I have to pick up the slack for my coworkers who decide to take the day off and fart around while there’s real work to be done. > > Really–it’s not that hard: recognize my efforts and pay me. Or give me time off with pay. Or leave me alone and let me do my _job_. All very good points. A couple of details that I’d mention if one of my staff mentioned concerns like this: 1. We always chose a date during our slowest time of the year and structured the deadlines (it was a desktop publishing department) so that nobody had anything due on the day of or day after the retreat. 2. Should you choose not to participate, that is totally cool. Our department did not require phone coverage and the work was assigned by employee. Anyone staying behind would only have to do their own work. Definitely no doing other people’s work. I didn’t want anyone punished for not participating. And of course, while the boss was away, I couldn’t monitor who spent the day on SDMB or Facebook. 😉 But really, I’m with ya. I’d rather spend a little bonus or take a day off myself. I don’t like pretending to like my coworkers… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/86 "2010-09-27T20:17:17Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Sometimes managers take a lot of time and energy to come up with team building activities that fit the group as a whole and that everyone will enjoy. My husband took a group of geeky IT people to see The Two Towers or something on opening day - they all loved it. But it was like six people he knew well enough to know that it had been a huge topic of conversation for everyone and something everyone wanted to do. Going to see “The Two Towers” is something I’d classify as an event, not team building. Events are good, in that they usually consist of a fun activity done on company time paid for by company money, and feel like you’re playing hooky. No facilitators, definitely not mandatory, and few people object. I doubt even Dilbert would object to seeing a movie on work time. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/87 "2010-09-27T20:22:47Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > [ > But really, I’m with ya. I’d rather spend a little bonus or take a day off myself. I don’t like pretending to like my coworkers… I don’t dislike my coworkers and I like my job. I just don’t like forced, mandatory “fun”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pikey\_pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pikey\_pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pikey_pete)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/88 "2010-09-27T20:51:47Z")
regardless of the efficacy of ‘team-building excercises’ if you aren’t the boss, then either A) quit, b)go or C) Hi Opal. In every job there are odious tasks which we don’t want to do. That is why we call it ‘work’ and not ‘fun.’ As a random aside, if your boss is considering a team building exercise…recommend paintball. Its a great excuse to relieve some stress and irritation at your coworkers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/89 "2010-09-27T20:56:20Z")
I don’t see why “complain on the internet” isn’t a valid option in that list. Also “wish death on the stupid, pointy-haired boss.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/90 "2010-09-27T21:56:40Z")
If you’re not already working as a team, artificial situations aren’t going to make you start. If you are already working as a team, artificial situations are going to waste your time. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/91 "2010-09-27T23:35:57Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > By your own admission, they had GOOD “team building” outings. So I doubt it’d kill you to find the silver lining in a bad one. BTW, do you have so little respect for authority that you’re confrontational with the leaders of these activities? We did find a silver lining – we built our team spirit by banding together against a common enemy: the “fun” activities organizers. As for respecting authority, _pfft_, they weren’t my bosses, and respect has to be earned. What they were was a bunch of twerps employed by another bullshit psychobabble team-building company, come to demonstrate how a contrived group activity to paint a communal mural from memory and glimpses of the desired result would make us better analysts and software developers. :rolleyes: > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > So would you ask someone who’s acrophobic to climb walls? Remember, a person might not want to admit that s/he’s got acrophobia. Quite apropos… I happen to be acrophobic – climbing walls was a challenge for me, and I never did make it over the elevated balance beam (safely harnessed and all, but 8 meters up and my brain just went _wibble_ :eek: ) But I take your point completely – fortunately I worked with people that I was comfortable enough around that I didn’t mind them see me wimp out on the balance beam – I can easily imagine some people would not desire that… as well as those who just couldn’t physically take part. (There were a lot of exhausted, pasty faced, overweight and under-fit IT desk jockeys after the orienteering over rugged country, I remember that). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/92 "2010-09-27T23:43:32Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I don’t see why “complain on the internet” isn’t a valid option in that list. Also “wish death on the stupid, pointy-haired boss.” I have been on few non-company sanctioned employee-initiated team building exerices were the boss’s effigy was tortured and destroyed. Come to think of it, those are the only team building exercies I have ever been involved with that actually improved morale (at least until our buzz wore off). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/93 "2010-09-28T00:26:16Z")
We’ve only had one team-building exercise so far at my current job since I hired in. We all went over to our supervisor’s house, had a bonfire, got piss drunk, and listened to 80’s metal on his extremely large sound system. Team-building is awesome! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/94 "2010-09-28T01:06:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I doubt even Dilbert would object to seeing a movie on work time. He might object to [The Fish Movie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FISH!_philosophy). I’ve had to sit through it thrice at three different jobs, and I will not do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/95 "2010-09-28T02:47:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > He might object to [The Fish Movie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FISH!_philosophy). I’ve had to sit through it thrice at three different jobs, and I will not do it again. Ack. I’ve not had the good fortune to see the Fish movie, but I’m immediately reminded of an arrogant prick of a manger from years past, who on coming in to take over a department that was functioning well and had been adapting to changing circumstances, personnel, projects, and policies on a regular basis – it had got to the point where we joked that “change” was our core business – and had the unmitigated gall to distribute copies of [Who Moved My Cheese?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_moved_my_cheese) and criticize anyone who didn’t wholehearted embrace its patronizing “wisdom” with every possible appendage. Fucking asshole! :mad: Ahhh… I feel better for that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/96 "2010-09-28T03:00:42Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > – and had the unmitigated gall to distribute copies of [Who Moved My Cheese?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_moved_my_cheese) Someone actually published and made money off that book?! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/97 "2010-09-28T05:26:59Z")
Ah yes, the “My team, my rules” new Supervisor game. Just before I was fired from the University, I got a new supervisor who came in and demanded that I do things contrary to established policy - and screamed “INSUBORDINATION!!!” every time I informed him of Policy or dared to contradict something he said. One of the very few people on this Earth who I hope dies a slow and painful death. The man proved, in a few short weeks, to be everything I despise in Humanity in general and in specific, people in positions of power. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/98 "2010-09-28T05:33:03Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Work ISN’T supposed to be fun! It’s SUPPOSED to be work! Now, it’d be nice if you enjoyed coming to work, and not become a homicidal maniac. The idea is to make money and put a roof over your head, and food on the table! I hope it’s not off-topic to quote this comment of yours from the original thread. Look, either you’re whooshing everyone here or you’re severely socially retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/99 "2010-09-28T05:42:46Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Quit, and start your own company where people don’t have to do these things. It called PLAYING THE GAME! I’m refering to the “team building” thread in MPSIMS in which people are BITCHING about doing things that they actually might get something out of them, even if they, try as they might, don’t want ot do them! They are playing the game but they don’t like it and they say so. What’s the beef? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148/100 "2010-09-28T07:06:15Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Jenorph :smack: I completely forgot about Amazon! I still believe “team building” CAN be productive if it’s presented as a fun OPTION! Don’t foce people to do it. I have never, ever seen an optional team building exercise. My opinion is that if it is in work time then whatever. I still get paid. I may hate it but it is just a one off. I’ll live. On the other hand, if it is outside of work time, especially the whole weekend away thing where you are effectively at work for a weekend, getting back late sunday, then it can genuinely fuck off. I once got kidnapped for a weekend away teambuilding, staying in a hotel just outside Stockholm. The hotel was closer to my apartment than the office was. Words fail me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-dont-want-to-do-team-building-exercises/555148.md?page=6)