# If you get drunk on an airplane, forcing it to be diverted, should you lose your job? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208 "2011-12-06T01:01:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/141 "2011-12-10T04:08:05Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Hey Malthus, the CBC says they [chewed through the restraints](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/12/09/rim-execs-flight.html)! > > Gotta wonder about the bit about them passing out, then waking up and drinking more. Why was alcohol available to them when they regained consciousness? Thanks for the link, and hey, did you catch this: (from link): > [@](#): > > The prosecutor in the case called Campbell and Wilson’s conduct “way over the top.” > > **The repercussions for the company** as well as every single person on the plane, both financially and perhaps even emotionally, **are going to be huge**." > > Air Canada later pegged its losses for diverting the flight at nearly $200,000 and RIM issued a statement saying that the conduct did not fit with the company’s “standards of business behaviour.” I wonder what “company” is being referred to above. It can’t be either AC or RIM, that’s for sure!- the SDMB legal eagles have provided ironclad legal citation establishing that nobody except the actual perps is liable for anything, so I guess the perps are considered a “company” under these circumstances by Canadian law. If that is so then I guess once the perps run out of money everyone who hasn’t collected yet is shit out of luck. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/142 "2011-12-10T04:17:32Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Gotta wonder about the bit about them passing out, then waking up and drinking more. Why was alcohol available to them when they regained consciousness? It don’t know about that extra alcohol either. I referred to its potential earlier as a case of “over serving” for which AC might be considered negligent. Fortunately for AC there is a reputable Canadian lawyer known to his best friends as “Spoons” who for a reasonable fee will handle any claims arising from the whole sorry mess. He has citations! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/143 "2011-12-10T07:18:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > In other words you are talking out of your ass. I base that assessment on my own reasoning–my knowledge of fact and use of logic. This was unnecessarily hostile. Let’s dial it back. > [@colonial](#): > > When you have time and are in a better mood feel free > to join the debate. I doubt you will add anything of value, > but maybe you can suprise me. On the other hand, this–and most of what you posted in several successive posts, including a claim that post #90 lacked a legal citation when it had one–is well over the line. Dial it back a lot. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![pragmatic55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@pragmatic55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pragmatic55)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/144 "2011-12-10T09:34:11Z")
I believe there’s such a moral leeway in the work force in terms of firing that if an employer so chooses, via whatever the ‘moral revolt impulses created by the offense’ - he can sufficiently fire anyone without the slightest consequences. It is a tragedy and a blessing over the most trivial details a man can be hired, and likewise fired. I believe Roger Goodell (the commisioner of the NFL), when he found his old boss who first hired him into the league offices and asked him why he hired him, was told in response, simply: “Because you seemed like a nice guy.” 🙂 so it is ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/145 "2011-12-10T17:07:41Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > …On the other hand, this–and most of what you posted in several successive posts, including a claim that post #90 lacked a legal citation when it had one–is well over the line. Dial it back a lot. > [/Moderating] You are correct and I erred about post #90 not having a legal citation. It does. I meant to write that post #s 64 and 9 **3** lacked citation. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/146 "2011-12-10T22:36:46Z")
Well I should really read page two before responding 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/147 "2011-12-11T02:09:01Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > I wonder what “company” is being referred to above. > > It can’t be either AC or RIM, that’s for sure!- the SDMB legal eagles have provided > ironclad legal citation establishing that nobody except the actual perps is liable for > anything, so I guess the perps are considered a “company” under these circumstances > by Canadian law. If that is so then I guess once the perps run out of money everyone > who hasn’t collected yet is shit out of luck. He can just as well be referring to what it’ll take the companies to handle the passengers who WILL try to sue them (and also the airport bar operators and even Seagram’s/Diageo or whoever made the booze) for their financial or emotional losses under the “deep pockets” angle. You need not be actually liable to be sued, you can be perfectly innocent and still have to pay lawyers a pretty penny to have that explained to the would-be plaintiff. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/148 "2011-12-11T21:00:51Z")
Boy, I’m glad I didn’t get that job at RIM that I applied for in April! ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/149 "2011-12-14T11:24:38Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/150 "2011-12-14T11:32:48Z")
Here is [another link to the trial and decision of the court](http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1101424--rim-executives-forced-plane-into-full-lockdown-while-drunk-court-transcript?bn=1). In addition to pointing out that neither guy had _any_ criminal record, this article also mentions that “prescription drugs were involved”. Specifically, they were using “sleeping pills”. That could explain a lot, i.e. it wasn’t simply a matter of them not being able to hold their booze (as a number of people have said earlier in this thread). It’s just a guess, but considering they were flying (and thus may have been nervous) and also crossing many time zones (and thus at high risk for jet lag), they might well have been taking lorazepam or something similar (i.e. “sleeping pills” which also have the effect of reducing both anxiety and jet lag). More to the point, though, [lorazepam is well known](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorazepam#Interactions) (if not notorious) for synergizing with alcohol, with the combination being particularly potent to cause amnesia and disinhibition (and, to a large extent, this is true for any “sleeping pill”) . So, in any case, then, regardless of the specific sleeping pill(s) involved, if they were drinking at a time when they had that type of drug in their system, their behaviour is much less surprising and, I submit, much more forgiveable (i.e. they should still be punished, but talk of lifetime bans is excessive). ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/151 "2011-12-14T13:05:09Z")
Two Scotsmen got on a plane . . . ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/152 "2011-12-14T14:40:15Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Two Scotsmen got on a plane . . . I don`t think we can use the “no two Scotsmen” fallacy here. 🙂 Good eye, **Karl**. I`ll read more of your links later, when I have time. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/153 "2011-12-14T17:49:52Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I don`t think we can use the “no two Scotsmen” fallacy here. 🙂 Win. (Especially if said out loud with a lisp). > [@Spoons](#): > > Good eye, **Karl**. I`ll read more of your links later, when I have time. It raises an interesting point – to what degree should people be given a break when they combine booze and drugs. You’d have to be living under a rock not to have learned that often booze and drugs do not go well together, so I would expect someone to check the contraindications first. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/154 "2011-12-14T18:10:03Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Win. (Especially if said out loud with a lisp). > It raises an interesting point – to what degree should people be given a break when they combine booze and drugs. You’d have to be living under a rock not to have learned that often booze and drugs do not go well together, so I would expect someone to check the contraindications first. True enough, but they simply may not have been thinking about such things at the time. In other words, pop an Ativan (or Xanax or whatever) to prevent jet lag and ‘calm the nerves’, and, ‘may I offer you a drink sir?’. Repeat. ETA: It is also possible that the effects of low oxygen during the flight played a role, when combined with booze and sleeping pills (\<= total speculation, mind you) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/155 "2011-12-14T18:38:46Z")
All this brings around the question of why alcohol is served at all on airplanes and in airports. Do we really need that? (Flashback of a KLM flight to Amsterdam full of Ukrainians shouting “Mooooooore Viiiiiiiine!” Not kidding.) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/156 "2011-12-14T18:41:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > All this brings around the question of why alcohol is served at all on airplanes and in airports. Do we really need that? > > (Flashback of a KLM flight to Amsterdam full of Ukrainians shouting “Mooooooore Viiiiiiiine!” Not kidding.) I don’t drink because I have to, I drink to quiet the voices in my head. And if you knew what they were saying, you wouldn’t want me to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/157 "2011-12-15T00:36:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > All this brings around the question of why alcohol is served at all on airplanes and in airports. Do we really need that? If you are stuffed inbetween a couple of drunks, about all you can to is self-medicate with pills and booze. Of course that’s a bit circular . . . ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208/158 "2011-12-16T09:10:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Two points: > > 1. Sarcasm often does not translate to text. Hence the evolution of conventions like [/sarcasm] 😃 and :rolleyes: and the like to indicate you are not entirely serious. > > 2. If no one picked up that you were sarcastic then the problem might not be us, it might be that you did not effectively convey your message. It was perfectly obvious. “I didn’t read what you said because you didn’t make any citations.” “So I guess you should go have your posts deleted where you didn’t make any citations.” There is no construction of those two sentences where anyone would think the second speaker actually wanted those posts deleted. In fact, it is so obvious that I still have a hard time believing you and Muffin didn’t just intentionally misinterpret it. Text does handle sarcasm rather well. Writers conveyed it for years without having to have emoticons. Emoticons are just shortcuts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-get-drunk-on-an-airplane-forcing-it-to-be-diverted-should-you-lose-your-job/605208.md?page=7)