# If you had half a mind to, do you belive you could obtain a firearm illegally? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558 "2016-06-27T21:03:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/1 "2016-06-27T21:03:12Z")
This is in reference to the argument gun control laws only keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. So looking at the Orlando shooting spree, we have this socially awkward kid that purchased firearms legally. Had he not been able to do that, I’m not convinced that he would have been able to go down to the local street corner on the bad side of town and buy a gun. But what do I know? I wouldn’t even know where to begin to purchase a firearm illegally. So, I put the question to my fellow Dopers: Do you think you could obtain a firearm illegally if you wanted to? (Not that you want to of course) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/2 "2016-06-27T21:12:21Z")
I have four gun shops within 5 miles of me, eight if you count the hunting rifles at the sporting goods stores. No problem fulfilling my personal defense needs. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/3 "2016-06-27T21:16:32Z")
Purchase? I dunno. But firearms are very simple machines, and I could build one fairly easily. With a set of plans that I’m sure I could find somewhere, I have no doubt that I could build a very reasonable semi-automatic rifle. Without plans, I could cobble together a Derringer-like weapon that could fire a few shots. It wouldn’t be reliable or accurate, but good enough for some purposes. Access to a basic metal lathe and mill is all I’d need. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/4 "2016-06-27T21:17:05Z")
You probably picture going into a dark alley and buying guns out of a trunk. That happens, but the most common illegal gun transfers are direct straw purchases. You pay a friend, addict, or random stranger to buy the guns for you. And even when we’re not talking about sending someone to a legitimate gun store, economics finds a way to connect people too afraid to go to the alley to buy the gun with people who aren’t afraid and want cash (in much the same way that suburban kids manage to buy plenty of illegal drugs from poor neighborhoods without ever personally crossing the tracks). It is trivially easy to illegally obtain a gun without much effort at all. Anyone with Google and enough cash can do it. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/5 "2016-06-27T21:17:10Z")
Since background checks aren’t required for private sales here, the closest I could come to buying one illegally would be crossing the state line and buy one from a resident of that state. Not exactly the makings of a spree shooter. Buying an illegal firearm would be more difficult, but probably do-able given a couple of weeks. Illegal firearm being something like a sawed off shotgun or a stolen weapon. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/6 "2016-06-27T21:23:23Z")
I could. I don’t need to, I can buy guns legally. A kid may not have it that easy, illegal weapons aren’t inexpensive, and it’s not the type of thing you can obtain quite as easily as illegal drugs. From cases a couple of cases I know about, teenage boys were able to obtain guns through the help of older friends and family. Without some contacts a kid is likely to get ripped off trying to buy a gun on the street. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/7 "2016-06-27T21:28:14Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I have four gun shops within 5 miles of me, eight if you count the hunting rifles at the sporting goods stores. No problem fulfilling my personal defense needs. What is illegal about that? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/8 "2016-06-27T21:33:20Z")
Beyond the logistics of _buying_ a gun illegally, how easy would it be to steal one? Sadly, the very first hit on Google for that question is a 2012 article from the Orlando Sentinel: [Is extra security needed to prevent thefts at gun shops? – Orlando Sentinel](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-12-25/news/os-gun-shop-burglaries-20121225_1_gun-shops-gun-shop-burglaries-eileen-rieg) Apparently, there are 15,000 guns stolen every year from gun shops, and there are no legal requirements for how guns are stored by these shops. And let’s not forget that plenty of guns are carried by pawn shops and sporting goods stores. I don’t know whether their security might be tighter or looser, but it’s a lot of potential venues to steal from. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/9 "2016-06-27T21:39:58Z")
I checked “other,” because I know several people who own them who would probably not give it a second thought if I asked to borrow one to go target shooting. I’m not even sure that’s illegal in Indiana, because while you need a permit to “carry,” something with a specific legal definition, I don’t think you need one to transport. That is, you can have a disassembled gun in a box in the trunk of your car, and drive from your friend’s home to a licensed indoor target area, register to use the target, assemble the gun in the shooting area, shoot, disassemble it, put in back in the box, and drive back to your friend’s house. That doesn’t mean it isn’t supremely stupid to lend someone a gun, but it isn’t illegal in and of itself. However, if I discharge the gun outside a legal shooting area, I can get in a lot more trouble than someone who at least was registered to possess it. So, while I don’t know off-hand how to illegally obtain a gun, I know how to obtain one that I could use in a highly illegal way. Also, I’m pretty sure I could figure out how to tap into the gun black market in Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/10 "2016-06-27T22:08:59Z")
I could probably get one from one of my neighbors, whom I strongly suspect is a drug dealer, and from whose house/driveway there has occasionally been gun fire and visits from the cops. Whether he’d sell me one is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/11 "2016-06-27T22:13:55Z")
Stealing a gun would be easier than buying one illegally. I think a lot of people with stolen guns would agree. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/12 "2016-06-27T22:16:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What is illegal about that? My poor reading comprehension ability should be a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/13 "2016-06-27T22:18:21Z")
I have a number of gun owners in my family. I’m sure if I told one of them I needed a gun right away, I could get one on a “we’ll straighten out the paperwork later” basis. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/14 "2016-06-27T22:24:14Z")
I could get a firearm illegally if challenged to a bet, but why bother going illegal? We’d have to stipulate obtaining some serious firepower that you can’t buy legally. As far as that’s concerned, I couldn’t say, but I’m white and I have money and there’s a wingnut gun show around here every month. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/15 "2016-06-27T22:32:00Z")
Where I live (Texas) it would actually be faster to get them illegally (buy from friend of a friend who sells firearms for cash no questions asked) than legally (go to professionally run firearms shop, fill out proper paper work, wait for them to fax it in in order to make sure I am not a convict or escaped mental patient). Therefore I suppose the answer is yes, but only if I am going to be lazy and not care about the quality of the firearm I purchase. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/16 "2016-06-27T23:00:52Z")
Be live I could? I know I could. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/17 "2016-06-27T23:03:47Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Stealing a gun would be easier than buying one illegally. I think a lot of people with stolen guns would agree. Cheaper, too. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/18 "2016-06-27T23:10:19Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > This is in reference to the argument gun control laws only keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. > > So looking at the Orlando shooting spree, we have this socially awkward kid that purchased firearms legally. Had he not been able to do that, I’m not convinced that he would have been able to go down to the local street corner on the bad side of town and buy a gun. > > But what do I know? > > I wouldn’t even know where to begin to purchase a firearm illegally. > So, I put the question to my fellow Dopers: Do you think you could obtain a firearm illegally if you wanted to? (Not that you want to of course) This is kinda missing the point, obtaining a gun illegally is only easy because it is so easy to obtain them legally. Every illegally obtained gun started their life as a perfectly legal purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/19 "2016-06-28T00:14:04Z")
There is no doubt I could get one. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/20 "2016-06-28T00:25:53Z")
Wouldn’t have the foggiest idea where to start looking. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558.md?page=2)