# If you had half a mind to, do you belive you could obtain a firearm illegally? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558 "2016-06-27T21:03:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/21 "2016-06-28T00:32:14Z")
I could have a gun by noon tomorrow. I wouldn’t even need to pay for it. I’ve got a patient who has been trying to give me a gun for years because he’s worried about my safety. I’ve adamantly refused it, of course. I finally (after consulting with my supervisor) took a small keychain can of pepper spray from him to satisfy his need to protect me. Even if we remove that admittedly odd duck from the equation, the answer is still yes. Might take a day or two, but I could make it happen. I live in Chicago, fer Chrissakes. Anyone who can’t find an illegal gun here isn’t trying. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/22 "2016-06-28T00:37:25Z")
I’m not sure about the question. I could easily arrange a face-to-face purchase. But those aren’t illegal and the only way I could make it an illegal transaction would be to somehow invalidate myself by intentionally committing a felony or something. Some one who cannot purchase is de facto doing an illegal purchase, but the definition is sort of tautological. I suppose I could also take some drugs and then lie on a legal 4473 purchase. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I checked “other,” because I know several people who own them who would probably not give it a second thought if I asked to borrow one to go target shooting. I’m not even sure that’s illegal in Indiana, because while you need a permit to “carry,” something with a specific legal definition, I don’t think you need one to transport. That is, you can have a disassembled gun in a box in the trunk of your car, and drive from your friend’s home to a licensed indoor target area, register to use the target, assemble the gun in the shooting area, shoot, disassemble it, put in back in the box, and drive back to your friend’s house. Why would you have to disassemble anything? Transporting an unloaded gun in a trunk is legal in all 50 states. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/23 "2016-06-28T00:43:55Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > …So looking at the Orlando shooting spree, we have this socially awkward kid that purchased firearms legally. Had he not been able to do that, I’m not convinced that he would have been able to go down to the local street corner on the bad side of town and buy a gun. (post shortened) “Socially awkward kid”??? Just to clarify, are you referring to the psychopath who butchered people inside the Pulse nightclub? The mass-murdering, radical, fanatical, Muslim terrorist who pledged allegiance to ISIS? I see no reason why such a mass-murdering terrorist couldn’t ask his fellow Muslim terrorists to loan him a firearm, or a few pipe bombs, or a pressure cooker and some fireworks. If he had to resort to dealing with outsiders (non-radical, fanatical, Muslim terrorists), he could make a few contacts thru the buying of illegal drugs. Drug dealers don’t seem to have any problems obtaining illegal firearms or illegal drugs. Bring cash. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/24 "2016-06-28T00:59:55Z")
Sure, but it would be less trouble for me to obtain one legally. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/25 "2016-06-28T01:01:50Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I’m not sure about the question. I could easily arrange a face-to-face purchase. But those aren’t illegal and the only way I could make it an illegal transaction would be to somehow invalidate myself by intentionally committing a felony or something. Some one who cannot purchase is de facto doing an illegal purchase, but the definition is sort of tautological. I suppose I could also take some drugs and then lie on a legal 4473 purchase. It’s in the OP: > [@](#): > > So looking at the Orlando shooting spree, we have this socially awkward kid that purchased firearms legally. Had he not been able to do that, I’m not convinced that he would have been able to go down to the local street corner on the bad side of town and buy a gun. IF you couldn’t buy a gun legally (let’s say the delusionally paranoid are correct and suddenly all guns are banned from legal sale and all gun shops and gun shows close overnight), could you get one anyway? It’s a question about the availability of illegal guns. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/26 "2016-06-28T01:14:23Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > This is in reference to the argument gun control laws only keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. > > So looking at the Orlando shooting spree, we have this socially awkward kid that purchased firearms legally. Had he not been able to do that, I’m not convinced that he would have been able to go down to the local street corner on the bad side of town and buy a gun. > > But what do I know? > > I wouldn’t even know where to begin to purchase a firearm illegally. Have you tried asking your girlfriend? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/27 "2016-06-28T01:33:57Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > “Socially awkward kid”??? Just to clarify, are you referring to the psychopath who butchered people inside the Pulse nightclub? The mass-murdering, radical, fanatical, Muslim terrorist who pledged allegiance to ISIS? I see no reason why such a mass-murdering terrorist couldn’t ask his fellow Muslim terrorists to loan him a firearm, or a few pipe bombs, or a pressure cooker and some fireworks. If he had to resort to dealing with outsiders (non-radical, fanatical, Muslim terrorists), he could make a few contacts thru the buying of illegal drugs. Drug dealers don’t seem to have any problems obtaining illegal firearms or illegal drugs. Bring cash. You do realize he wasn’t an actual member of ISIS right? I don’t believe he had a big network of terrorists he could draw from. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/28 "2016-06-28T01:36:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I see no reason why such a mass-murdering terrorist couldn’t ask his fellow Muslim terrorists to loan him a firearm, or a few pipe bombs, or a pressure cooker and some fireworks. I’m sure the FBI would love to know about his terrorist contacts. You seem to be the only person with that information. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/29 "2016-06-28T01:55:22Z")
No question I could but then again I am basically inner-city; ghetto does have its advantages. I am sure at least 20% of the houses on my street have some kind of illegally obtained firearm (I’ve seen a few of them) and I wouldn’t be shocked if the actual percentage is well over half. Lord knows it’s next to impossible to convince many of my neighbors that they can get the darn things legally. (Most could. For some reason they just don’t.) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/30 "2016-06-28T02:00:08Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > You do realize he wasn’t an actual member of ISIS right? I don’t believe he had a big network of terrorists he could draw from. You do realize he wasn’t just a socially awkward kid, right? We might be able to get some network information from AG Loretta E. Lynch. Her office, and the FBI, were able to question the monster’s wife before they misplaced her. I still believe drug dealers would be the most likely people to aid in an attempt to illegally buy firearms. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/31 "2016-06-28T02:07:13Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’m sure the FBI would love to know about his terrorist contacts. You seem to be the only person with that information. Hasn’t AG Lynch published all the fact of her investigation yet? I wonder where the monster’s wife wandered off to? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/32 "2016-06-28T02:19:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I still believe drug dealers would be the most likely people to aid in an attempt to illegally buy firearms. That and the neighborhood bar; assuming you are a regular there. If you are in a rural area, I would try the bar first but plan on hitting it 5 times a week for a month or so before asking around. The local grange wouldn’t be a bad place either. (I’m city now but I grew up ridgerunner. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/33 "2016-06-28T02:20:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hasn’t AG Lynch published all the fact of her investigation yet? I wonder where the monster’s wife wandered off to? Why don’t you ask his co-conspirators? You seem to be the only one with any knowledge of them. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/34 "2016-06-28T02:23:05Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > But firearms are very simple machines, and I could build one fairly easily. With a set of plans that I’m sure I could find somewhere, I have no doubt that I could build a very reasonable semi-automatic rifle. Without plans, I could cobble together a Derringer-like weapon that could fire a few shots. It wouldn’t be reliable or accurate, but good enough for some purposes. Access to a basic metal lathe and mill is all I’d need. Unless you are both an expert machinist and have good knowledge of hardening and forging processes, I do not think building a semi-automatic weapon is anywhere near as easy as you believe it to be. Doing so would require more than just a “basic metal lathe and mill”; you will also need some kind of end mill, likely a MIG welder, a precision drill press, a carbide tap & die kit, and various finishing tools, as well as an ability to form springs and perform controlled heat treatment and hardening operations. Although I have never built a firearm from stock, I have built protptypes of various delatching, separating, cutting, severing, and penetrating mechanisms of complexity and precision comparable to a simple automatic firearm using a modern fully equipped machine shop, and it is not trivial to make a precision mechanism (which an autoloading pistol would be) to function reliably, even when it is build to print. A zip gun can be made from components found in the hardware store, but I wouldn’t want to fire anything larger than low power small caliber rounds like a .22 LR or .32 S&W. I’ve seen what ruptured fireams can do to someone, and I’d like to retain my hypothetical ability to play thr piano even if I never get beyond “Chopsticks”. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/35 "2016-06-28T02:35:16Z")
I’ve had people try to illegally give me guns, and I could quite easily stroll into any one of a dozen neighbor’s houses (no one locks their doors) and pick up any number of un-secured firearms without anyone being the wiser. People are really stupid about guns around here. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/36 "2016-06-28T02:40:56Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > I’ve had people try to illegally give me guns I find this very hard to believe. Ain’t shit for free. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/37 "2016-06-28T02:46:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why don’t you ask his co-conspirators? You seem to be the only one with any knowledge of them. Have you no faith in Obama’s AG Lynch to root out the truth? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/38 "2016-06-28T02:55:50Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Stealing a gun would be easier than buying one illegally. I think a lot of people with stolen guns would agree. How would stealing a gun be easier? > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Purchase? I dunno. > > But firearms are very simple machines, and I could build one fairly easily. With a set of plans that I’m sure I could find somewhere, I have no doubt that I could build a very reasonable semi-automatic rifle. Without plans, I could cobble together a Derringer-like weapon that could fire a few shots. It wouldn’t be reliable or accurate, but good enough for some purposes. Access to a basic metal lathe and mill is all I’d need. With plans, how would you rifle it to get decent accuracy? Wouldn’t it be simpler to make a bolt action/falling block gun or a submachine gun? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/39 "2016-06-28T03:01:42Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I find this very hard to believe. Ain’t shit for free. Unless I misunderstood your use of “give”. Let borrow? Is that what you meant? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/40 "2016-06-28T03:15:04Z")
I could be back at my keyboard with one,before the 5-minute edit window expires, so I could tell you about it in this post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558.md?page=3)