# If you had half a mind to, do you belive you could obtain a firearm illegally? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558 "2016-06-27T21:03:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/61 "2016-06-28T14:35:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I know the area to go to inquire but they might think I look like a cop. > > Most of the illegal guns I’ve taken off of people have been pieces of shit so I would rather get one legally. What sets off their cop alarm? Were most of the guns 25 or 32ACP caliber? Which brands were most popular? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/62 "2016-06-28T14:57:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > We might be able to get some network information from AG Loretta E. Lynch. Her office, and the FBI, were able to question the monster’s wife before they misplaced her. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Hasn’t AG Lynch published all the fact of her investigation yet? I wonder where the monster’s wife wandered off to? > [@doorhinge](#): > > Have you no faith in Obama’s AG Lynch to root out the truth? Enough with this. Take it to another thread, if you must. Do not attempt to hijack this thread any further. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/63 "2016-06-28T15:24:32Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > What sets off their cop alarm? > Were most of the guns 25 or 32ACP caliber? Which brands were most popular? Short hair, military bearing, steely gaze… Yes mostly smaller calibers but some 9mm too. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/64 "2016-06-28T15:45:39Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I wish people would stop calling it that. If one _must_ call it a loophole, it’s the “private sale loophole.” It has nothing to do with gun shows. Thanks you; that has always annoyed me somewhat as well. I have noticed a trait in private sales at shows where the seller asks the buyer to show a valid concealed carry permit showing they have at least passed a basic background check or doing the full paperwork (its required at all the bigger area shows) through one of the licensed dealers present. It may differ from region to region but around here the loophole is almost anywhere BUT gunshows. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/65 "2016-06-28T16:20:52Z")
I’d be stunned if I couldn’t do it in half a day. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/66 "2016-06-28T16:22:20Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > This is kinda missing the point, obtaining a gun illegally is only easy because it is so easy to obtain them legally. Every illegally obtained gun started their life as a perfectly legal purchase. [Absolutely not](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html). The majority of illegal guns are bought through straw purchases (Operation Fast and Furious, anyone?), corrupt firearms dealers or stolen. Most of the scenarios in the responses here are not illegal purchases (or gifts) of firearms. There are only 2 categories of illegal purchase: 1. Purchase of prohibited firearms (sawed off shotgun, fully automatic rifle/pistol, bazooka, etc.) without a proper permit 2. Purchase by a person who lost their right to own a firearm (convicted felon, domestic violence conviction, drug user, underage, etc.) Since scenario 2 does not apply to me, I answered based on scenario 1 - I think I could. I have a wide range of acquaintances, I’m pretty sure I could acquire a sawed off shotgun if I put out the word that I was looking. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/67 "2016-06-28T16:28:57Z")
Missed edit window. There is one other category of illegal purchase - buying a firearm that the purchaser knows to be stolen or illegally obtained. I ain’t gonna do that, either. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/68 "2016-06-28T16:31:26Z")
I’m not sure I understand the question based on the other answers. _IF_ I was somehow barred from buying a gun (let’s say I had a felony conviction), I would just go on ArmsList and find someone in my state selling a gun. If they did their due diligence and asked if I were a felon or someone who would fail a background check, I would lie and fork over the cash. Then I would have my gun. Anyone could do that, and if you don’t know about ArmsList you could just google “websites for buying guns” or some other such awkward phrase and ArmsList is on the first page of results. As others have pointed out, this is the actual “gun show loophole” that actually has nothing to do with gun shows. In some hypothetical universe where private gun sales are banned, I would have no clue where to begin. I’d like to think my friends wouldn’t complete a straw purchase for me. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/69 "2016-06-28T16:35:44Z")
Since having someone buy a gun for you is illegal, yeah, I would be able to do that. If I had to find a guy in an alley somewhere, probably not, since I look too wholesome for that sort of transaction. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/70 "2016-06-29T01:33:56Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Most of the scenarios in the responses here are not illegal purchases (or gifts) of firearms. There are only 2 categories of illegal purchase: > > 1. Purchase of prohibited firearms (sawed off shotgun, fully automatic rifle/pistol, bazooka, etc.) without a proper permit > 2. Purchase by a person who lost their right to own a firearm (convicted felon, domestic violence conviction, drug user, underage, etc.) 1. Handgun without legal transfer - assuming said transfer is outside my bloodline. Said firearm could be stolen, legally purchased but not legally sold/transfered, or purchased under the table from an estate. Like you I don’t have to worry about 2) but lets say I am planning something nefarious requiring a pistol. I may feel better using something that can’t be easily traced back to me. So I look for someone down on their luck or some widow and say “That old ACP you got ------”. In a way you have three classifications – legal, illegal and something in-between. The old I&J .38 S&W that belonged to my Dad (and actually shoots fantastically); legal. He passed on to me; legal. If I sell it to you without going through a licensed dealer and having the paperwork done; illegal. If not having any kids I pass it along to some other relative – not so clear. The gun itself is fine as it sits but my future, or of those who clean up after I’m gone, could quickly change that. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/71 "2016-06-29T03:29:28Z")
I could do it with ease. 5 minutes from now I could have an illegally transferred firearm in my hands. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/72 "2016-06-29T03:41:29Z")
It’s not that hard sawing off the end of a shotgun … I answered yes, but it would take me a while before I could lay hands on something beefier than what’s technically legal … but I have complete confidence these weapons could be had for the right price. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/73 "2016-06-29T06:23:53Z")
No, I don’t think so - being in Japan, for a start, there is only something like 150 licenses for private pistol owners at any one time. Police have revolvers but I’d probably have to kill the cop to get it off him. I also know nothing about metalworking so making one myself would be a long project. If I wanted to steal a shotgun or a rifle I know where I would go - the local big yacht harbour, where I can only assume that many yachts that do trans ocean voyages would have one stashed somewhere. Being in dock they probably wouldn’t have any ammo with them though. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558/74 "2016-06-29T12:46:50Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > 1. Handgun without legal transfer - assuming said transfer is outside my bloodline. Said firearm could be stolen, legally purchased but not legally sold/transfered, or purchased under the table from an estate. > > Like you I don’t have to worry about 2) but lets say I am planning something nefarious requiring a pistol. I may feel better using something that can’t be easily traced back to me. So I look for someone down on their luck or some widow and say “That old ACP you got ------”. > > In a way you have three classifications – legal, illegal and something in-between. The old I&J .38 S&W that belonged to my Dad (and actually shoots fantastically); legal. He passed on to me; legal. If I sell it to you without going through a licensed dealer and having the paperwork done; illegal. If not having any kids I pass it along to some other relative – not so clear. The gun itself is fine as it sits but my future, or of those who clean up after I’m gone, could quickly change that. According to [federal law](https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/what-recordkeeping-procedures-should-be-followed-when-two-unlicensed) I can, as a private individual, sell any of my guns to anyone I wish so long as they live in my state and (less clear) I do not know them to be an individual who cannot legally purchase a firearm. > [@](#): > > When a transaction takes place between unlicensed persons who reside in the same State, the GCA does not require any record keeping. An unlicensed person may sell a firearm to another unlicensed person in his or her State of residence and, similarly, an unlicensed person may buy a firearm from another unlicensed person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same–State” residents. State law may be a bit more strict, but Georgia follows the federal statute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-had-half-a-mind-to-do-you-belive-you-could-obtain-a-firearm-illegally/758558.md?page=3)