# If you have ever doubted that we are related to chimps... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 8, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919 "2010-07-08T00:48:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/1 "2010-07-08T00:48:32Z")
Look at this photo of a [hairless one](http://www.flickr.com/photos/amandaweeding/3024567966/). I had a look at this as a link off the thread on fighting a chimp and it just struck me as amazing and deserving of a wider audience. If you were to cut away the photo so only his nearside arm was visible there is no way you would be able to distinguish it from the arm of an older, very well muscled man. That thing isn’t just any animal, it is quite clearly my ugly relation. Perhaps I’m just speaking for myself. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/2 "2010-07-08T01:27:50Z")
The resemblance is striking, but there are many other striking resemblances in the animal kingdom between species that aren’t nearly so closely related. Not that I don’t think humans and chimps share a common ancestor and 98%+ of their DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/3 "2010-07-08T05:20:01Z")
Holy shit, look at those arm muscles. I know chimps are strong and all, but daaaaaaamn. It’s one thing to be told that they’re strong, and it’s quite another to actually SEE the musculature. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/4 "2010-07-08T09:38:39Z")
He looks chilly. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/5 "2010-07-08T11:51:15Z")
Lots of [YouTube videos of Jambo.](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jambo+chimp&aq=f) But the photo is the clearest image of him. Pretty sure that chimp’s been hitting the gym… ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/6 "2010-07-08T12:33:36Z")
That was my post. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12659375#post12659375](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12659375#post12659375) > [@Could you knock out an enraged chimp?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/27): > > You can really see how strong chimps are if you look at one that doesn’t have any hair. Here’s a Google image search on it: [hairless chimpanzee - Google Search](http://www.google.com/images?client=firefox&rls=en&q=hairless%20chimpanzee) > > Some good examples: > [http://lh3.ggpht.com/\_vINstQpJYak/SmcWGxH8oYI/AAAAAAAAA50/\_umpd-Lv6wE/s800/ape%20died%201000.jpg](http://lh3.ggpht.com/_vINstQpJYak/SmcWGxH8oYI/AAAAAAAAA50/_umpd-Lv6wE/s800/ape%20died%201000.jpg) > [http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3202/3024567966\_4ffe563ebd.jpg](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3202/3024567966_4ffe563ebd.jpg) > [http://zoopictures.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p140090038-3.jpg](http://zoopictures.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p140090038-3.jpg) > [ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2821/baldchimp5bk6.jpg) > > ([This](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6waX9ryUnv8/Seydm0ekwzI/AAAAAAAAAN8/UphcQTcMJwY/s320/Picture+9.png) is one of the skinnier ones, but it’s interesting because it looks so much like a human.) > > I wonder how a chimp would compare in strength to a world-class bodybuilder. Of course, in a fight the chimp as the advantage if its teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/7 "2010-07-08T16:12:41Z")
Problem is, we’re not related to chimpanzees, at least not in the sense most people would use the term. We [ARE chimpanzees](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Chimpanzee#The_chimpanzee.27s_closest_relatives_.28part_one.29), essentially – just a mutated strain with a bigger brain. Note that the percentage of genetic difference between humans and chimps is smaller than the variation _within_ some single species. ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/8 "2010-07-08T23:14:06Z")
I visited Monkey World in Dorset, UK recently - it’s full of monkey and ape species that have had to be rescued - either from the pet trade, laboratories or other cruel institutions. It’s like a huge zoo but filled with fully grown animals that have had to learn how to go outside and feed themselves. Several animals have arms or legs missing from the mistreatment of their past, many have been orphaned or had medical treatment to make then healthy and secure again. Walking around the place you hear lone gibbons howling for non-existant mates, it’s a very sad, humbling place to visit. Except that they need every penny they can raise just to stay open, as such they let anyone visit for a fee of £6. Families with very small kids rush through and laugh at the orangutans when they come to the glass and plead with the visitors. Information boards everywhere tell of the terrible plight of every one of the inmates - for example, one said a “photographic prop” from Spain was rescued with terrible gum disease from the sweets his keeper fed him, and was overweight and addicted to vallium. On reading the first sentence I heard a visitor say “awww, this one had bad teeth and little problems” what the hell have things come to, the creature has no hopes and his species is dying out because of deforestation. Remind me again, are we related to chimps? Without any risk of argument, the noble creatures on the other side of the fence were the kings - the stupid senseless bugs watching were the inferiors. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/9 "2010-07-08T23:26:36Z")
> [@SunSandSuffering](#): > > Remind me again, are we related to chimps? Without any risk of argument, the noble creatures on the other side of the fence were the kings - the stupid senseless bugs watching were the inferiors. Especially since we humans have such widespread practice of bashing in the brains of baby chimps and eating them. Oh, wait, no, [that’s what the chimps do to their own kind](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=chimpanzee+infanticide&aq=0&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=chimpanzee+infan&gs_rfai=). But I don’t condemn the chimpanzees for doing that. How could I? _They’re animals_, and it’s silly to ascribe “nobility” or any other human moral or scruple to them. IOW, I think you’re being a tad silly. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/10 "2010-07-09T00:01:54Z")
This seems like the perfect thread to link [an appropriate song from They Might Be Giants.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ_WeLi09p0) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/11 "2010-07-09T02:14:03Z")
> [@SunSandSuffering](#): > > Without any risk of argument, the noble creatures on the other side of the fence were the kings - the stupid senseless bugs watching were the inferiors. Hardly. We are in many ways their superior, which is the problem; we are so much more powerful that we can destroy their species through simple indifference. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/12 "2010-07-09T02:59:06Z")
They’re pretty smart though: **Monkeys [catapult [themselves] to freedom](http://www.smh.com.au/world/monkeys-catapult-to-freedom-over-fence-20100708-102bc.html) over fence**. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/13 "2010-07-09T03:32:44Z")
> [@SunSandSuffering](#): > > I visited Monkey World in Dorset, UK recently - it’s full of monkey and ape species that have had to be rescued - either from the pet trade, laboratories or other cruel institutions. It’s like a huge zoo but filled with fully grown animals that have had to learn how to go outside and feed themselves. Several animals have arms or legs missing from the mistreatment of their past, many have been orphaned or had medical treatment to make then healthy and secure again. Walking around the place you hear lone gibbons howling for non-existant mates, it’s a very sad, humbling place to visit. I do agree with you that it is very sad that we humans often are so lacking in empathy for creatures who truly are so very much like ourselves. But then when you think about how cruel humans can be to other humans, it shouldn’t be a surprise. I wish that humans could rise above their own animal nature a bit more often. On the other hand, there actually are people out there who are advocating for [granting personhood to the great ape species](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape_personhood) and granting them some rights. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/14 "2010-07-09T03:43:22Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Especially since we humans have such widespread practice of bashing in the brains of baby chimps and eating them. Oh, wait, no, [that’s what the chimps do to their own kind](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=chimpanzee+infanticide&aq=0&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=chimpanzee+infan&gs_rfai=). > > But I don’t condemn the chimpanzees for doing that. How could I? _They’re animals_, and it’s silly to ascribe “nobility” or any other human moral or scruple to them. > > IOW, I think you’re being a tad silly. Me too. I don’t think that the orangs are pleading with the visitors either. Pleading for what, anyway? And what’s so bad about the visitors saying, “Aww”? Is it better that they laugh and say, “Awesome, they have problems.” ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/15 "2010-07-10T01:01:46Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Especially since we humans have such widespread practice of bashing in the brains of baby chimps and eating them. Oh, wait, no, [that’s what the chimps do to their own kind](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=chimpanzee+infanticide&aq=0&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=chimpanzee+infan&gs_rfai=). > > But I don’t condemn the chimpanzees for doing that. How could I? _They’re animals_, and it’s silly to ascribe “nobility” or any other human moral or scruple to them. > > IOW, I think you’re being a tad silly. That’s not what I was arguing, if so I misrepresented my thoughts. Animal behaviour is what it is, chimps cannibalise themselves sometimes, it’s not noble or otherwise. What I was trying to say was that people have a hard time believing themselves associated with great apes. But from what I have seen great apes conduct themselves brilliantly. Mankind has a hard time associating themselves with these creatures but the reverse is clear to see. Visitors to the centre were so blase about the one-time wild animals behind the fences but the creatures weren’t. Seemed like such a waste it makes me respect people who try to preserve non-mankind habitats and occupants. You could see the freak-show attitude of the visitors and get a glimpse of the wildlife behind the screens. It was a contrast, people rushing through with baby carriages not giving a damn and the monkeys and apes checking it all out. As a visitor who gave it some time I could see who was considering the other and it wasn’t the human visitors. I just don’t get how blinkered people can be, the relationship was obvious but no-one cared. ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/16 "2010-07-10T01:04:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hardly. We are in many ways their superior, which is the problem; we are so much more powerful that we can destroy their species through simple indifference. Thank you, you put it down so much better than I could! ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/17 "2010-07-10T02:58:35Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > I do agree with you that it is very sad that we humans often are so lacking in empathy for creatures who truly are so very much like ourselves. But then when you think about how cruel humans can be to other humans, it shouldn’t be a surprise. I wish that humans could rise above their own animal nature a bit more often. > > On the other hand, there actually are people out there who are advocating for [granting personhood to the great ape species](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape_personhood) and granting them some rights. What you call ‘animal nature’ is so much more willfully and spectacularly cruel and hideous against our own kind than most species that I call it ‘human nature’. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/18 "2010-07-10T12:36:08Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > ? _They’re animals_, and it’s silly to ascribe “nobility” or any other human moral or scruple to them. > > IOW, I think you’re being a tad silly. I don’t get it - are you being sarcastic, or do you really think nobility, morals, and scruples are somehow unique to humans? I understand that we are not animals only in the sense that “animals” is defined to mean “other than us”, but that there are no differences of kind between us and the other animal species, just various differences of degree as there are between all pairs of species. Would you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-have-ever-doubted-that-we-are-related-to-chimps/545919/19 "2010-07-10T12:48:06Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > They’re pretty smart though: **Monkeys [catapult [themselves] to freedom](http://www.smh.com.au/world/monkeys-catapult-to-freedom-over-fence-20100708-102bc.html) over fence**. > [@](#): > > Despite the intelligence demonstrated by their great escape, the primates appeared unsure what to do with their freedom: they remained by the gates of the centre and were lured back by scientists with peanuts. 😃