# If you haven't done anything wrong.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525 "2006-06-21T02:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/1 "2006-06-21T02:21:26Z")
…then [this story](http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/20/police.phonedata.ap.ap/index.html) won’t bother you in the least. > [@CNN](#): > > WASHINGTON (AP) – Federal and local police across the country – as well as some of the nation’s best-known companies – have been gathering Americans’ phone records from private data brokers **without subpoenas or warrants.** > These brokers, many of whom market aggressively across the Internet, have broken into customer accounts online, tricked phone companies into revealing information and sometimes acknowledged that their practices violate laws, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press. I trust my Government. I trust my Government. I trust my Government. The policeman is my friend. The policeman is my friend. The policeman is my friend. When did I turn into **Reeder** , exactly? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/2 "2006-06-21T02:49:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > When did I turn into **Reeder** , exactly? I don’t think you’re turning into **Reeder** as much as time is proving him right in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/3 "2006-06-21T03:03:19Z")
So phishers are selling to the government? Is that what’s happening? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/4 "2006-06-21T03:08:23Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > … > I trust my Government. I trust my Government. I trust my Government. > The policeman is my friend. The policeman is my friend. The policeman is my friend. > … Okay, so we you trust the Government & the Police, but what about Ford, Wells Fargo & Wachovia? We are rapidly losing all of our privacy. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/5 "2006-06-21T04:34:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > When did I turn into **Reeder** , exactly? We’re all losing are sanity nowadays. War is peace &c. So, um, since I’m too lazy to read the article, is this not the same gathering of phone records that we heard about a month or so ago? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/6 "2006-06-21T04:37:41Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > So, um, since I’m too lazy to read the article, is this not the same gathering of phone records that we heard about a month or so ago? No. That was directly from the phone companies. This is from, more or less, private investigators and third-party resellers of information. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/7 "2006-06-21T04:40:42Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > No. That was directly from the phone companies. This is from, more or less, private investigators and third-party resellers of information. Thanks, I left my reading comprehension in my other pants. At any rate, GAAAAHHHH!! MORE OF MY PRECIOUS SANITY DISAPPEARING!! With luck, I’ll retain enough of it that my SDMB profile won’t link to pictures of me having sex. That will leave me at least one step above **Reeder**. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/8 "2006-06-21T06:05:15Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > With luck, I’ll retain enough of it that my SDMB profile won’t link to pictures of me having sex. That will leave me at least one step above **Reeder**. It strikes me that actually being still here puts you at least one step above **Reeder**. Post all the pics you want, your position is secure. I just came back from looking at **Reeder** ’s profile, BTW. You bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/9 "2006-06-21T06:43:51Z")
Over a decade ago when I was a staunch right winger and Clinton was president, I had a bumper sticker that said, **I love my country but I fear my government**. Time for me to find another one of those stickers. Sadly it’s not just rhetoric this time. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/10 "2006-06-21T11:55:59Z")
Instead of worrying about privacy, I think we ought to jam those fuckfaced spooks with so much crapola that they’ll cease to consider the Average American’s phone records, credit card charges, library books, etc. to be any sort of useful info. Everybody ought to call Iraq, buy fertilizer, check out The Anarchist’s Cookbook, and surf to Al-Jazzera every single day until they fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/11 "2006-06-21T12:13:08Z")
> [@An Arky](#): > > Instead of worrying about privacy, I think we ought to jam those fuckfaced spooks with so much crapola that they’ll cease to consider the Average American’s phone records, credit card charges, library books, etc. to be any sort of useful info. Everybody ought to call Iraq, buy fertilizer, check out The Anarchist’s Cookbook, and surf to Al-Jazzera every single day until they fuck off. Sounds like _someone_ needs a healthy stay in a labour cam- uh, _re-education facility_. Please stay where you are, **An Arky** you will be collected shortly. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/12 "2006-06-21T12:44:53Z")
> [@An Arky](#): > > Instead of worrying about privacy, I think we ought to jam those fuckfaced spooks with so much crapola that they’ll cease to consider the Average American’s phone records, credit card charges, library books, etc. to be any sort of useful info. Everybody ought to call Iraq, buy fertilizer, check out The Anarchist’s Cookbook, and surf to Al-Jazzera every single day until they fuck off. You have described a very nice Viral Passive Resistance Movement. I would like to see at least 1 million people buy into it but at the same time, I also want the Spooks to be able to intercept the calls from the terrorist. 😕 I am more annoyed that Corporations are buying up unethically gathered information on us. I am also somewhat fearful about \*\*Happy Clam’s \*\* joke becoming reality. If given the choice, I will choose liberty over safety. Jim ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/13 "2006-06-21T12:49:13Z")
I would also like the spooks to intercept the terrorists’ calls, too but I want to have a way to tell the government to stop barking up the wrong trees and doing shit I don’t want them to do. Voting doesn’t seem to do the trick these days. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/14 "2006-06-21T12:50:19Z")
> [@An Arky](#): > > Instead of worrying about privacy, I think we ought to jam those fuckfaced spooks with so much crapola that they’ll cease to consider the Average American’s phone records, credit card charges, library books, etc. to be any sort of useful info. Everybody ought to call Iraq, buy fertilizer, check out The Anarchist’s Cookbook, and surf to Al-Jazzera every single day until they fuck off. I’m in. You first. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/15 "2006-06-21T13:00:22Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > You have described a very nice Viral Passive Resistance Movement. > I would like to see at least 1 million people buy into it but at the same time, I also want the Spooks to be able to intercept the calls from the terrorist. 😕 > I am more annoyed that Corporations are buying up unethically gathered information on us. I am also somewhat fearful about \*\*Happy Clam’s \*\* joke becoming reality. If given the choice, I will choose liberty over safety. > > Jim Joke? **Joke**?! You think it was a _jok_- ah. Yes, of course. A mere jest. Please, carry on. In all seriousness, I don’t believe that gaining more information in this way is going to be in any way conducive to catching terrorists (not to mention I think that the danger of the terrorist threat has been greatly overstated). US intelligence services have historically demonstrated an inability to sift information for useful clues, and a failure to act on them when they do gain them (I don’t want to get into another debate here- was 9/11 preventable? Perhaps. Certainly there was marked failure to act on information.), and, finally, such information is often highly misleading in any case. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it across the pond, but in the recent Forest Gate raid, police searched a house, arrested two innocent men, one of whom they shot, all on the basis of totally spurious “intelligence”. I think that this sort of situation is more likely to lead to another Forest Gate than to preventing the next 7/7. In any case, the greatest threat nowadays seems to come from “home-grown” terrorists, who are notoriously difficult to pick up with surveillance. I agree you that I would rather have liberty than security. In this case, however, there isn’t even a choice- merely the spurious illusion of security presented by those who claim to be the only source of information on the “tremendous threat” that faces us, and who have a vested interest in keeping us uninformed and afraid. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/16 "2006-06-21T13:10:06Z")
I hate people that say “If you have nothing to hide then …” I always quote them back a line from Bogart that goes somehing like “Everyone has something to hide.” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/17 "2006-06-21T13:10:53Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > I also want the Spooks to be able to intercept the calls from the terrorist. Wait, there is only one terrorist? Then we have won, the war on terror is over. Or are they like the Sith, only 2 at a time and we have to get them both? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/18 "2006-06-21T13:19:46Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Wait, there is only one terrorist? Then we have won, the war on terror is over. Or are they like the Sith, only 2 at a time and we have to get them both? : snort : > [@An Arky](#): > > Everybody ought to call Iraq, buy fertilizer, check out The Anarchist’s Cookbook, and surf to Al-Jazzera every single day until they fuck off. Please, have at it. Those of us who already call/write/e-mail overseas innocently to India/Pakistan (and I’m sure Iraq/Iran/Saudia Arabia - I’m only speaking of my own family) already hate the idea of the government monitoring our calls. It’ll help if everyone is doing it! And those folks are smart, too. You should see how clever INS\* is. I’m sure these listeners are at least on the same level. I’m sure they have fluent Hindi speakers listening in to my family telling me I should get married. :rolleyes: \*INS - an acquaintance of mine was trying to come to the States legally. Immigration is severely clamped down these days, so he got an engaged to an Indian living in the States. When they showed the video to the INS person, who was not Indian, she said, “This isn’t real. I know this isn’t an Indian wedding because there’s not enough people in it. You guys have hundreds of people at your weddings.” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/19 "2006-06-21T13:20:12Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Wait, there is only one terrorist? Then we have won, the war on terror is over. Or are they like the Sith, only 2 at a time and we have to get them both? I just had a thought for which I am irrevocably damned… Donald Rumsfeld and George W. standing over the corpse of al-Zarqawi. “The threat is ended, now, George” says Rumsfeld, sheathing his Patriot-missile-saber. “No.” From behind them comes Dick Cheney, hunched over and shuffling. “Always two there are… a master, and an apprentice.” Miles away, in a cave somewhere, a withered hand extends from beneath a voluminous cloak. Cue ominous music, roll credits. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-havent-done-anything-wrong/361525/20 "2006-06-21T13:49:08Z")
> [@blinkingblinking](#): > > I hate people that say “If you have nothing to hide then …” > I always quote them back a line from Bogart that goes somehing like “Everyone has something to hide.” Yes. And in similar vein to that line about no-one ever wishing on their deathbed that they’d spent more time at the office… breathes there a soul so innocent and law-abiding that they wish the police knew _more_ about them?