# If you legally own a gun you can shoot an intruder: Now on to the weather. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 26, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221 "2007-07-26T13:34:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/61 "2007-07-29T09:19:54Z")
[QUOTE=trupa] -drunk/medically altered mental status person who thinks it’s their house, their keys don’t work for some reason, and just wants to go to bed. [/QUOTE] We went to an Oktoberfest celebration last year and all the balconies on the second level of our hotel were adjoined. Sure enough evidently some drunk guy from next door comes stumbling in our room at about 3AM. I damn near went over the next day and told him how easily he could have gotten himself killed given the amount of people I know that carry in this state. Had I been with a family of my own and not just my mother there’d definitely have been an incident. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2007, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/62 "2007-07-30T10:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=Digital Stimulus] The majority of people I know would argue with me, but I believe the law should allow a property owner to defend themselves when threatened – including the use of deadly force. There’re very few laws, IMHO, that are more dehumanizing than those that make it illegal to protect oneself. Note that I’m making a broad generalization, and am specifically not commenting on gun control, defining “excessive force”, nor appropriate justification. This is IMHO, after all. [/QUOTE] doyou have an example of such a law? one that makes it illegal to protect yourself? ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2007, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/63 "2007-07-30T11:01:34Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] In Alaska, if you surprise a burglar and he tries to escape,[you are allowed to shoot him in the back as he runs away.](http://www.adn.com/front/story/4267614p-4278352c.html): [/QUOTE] That article you cited simply shows that the perpetrator (a pastor by the way) was acquitted of negligent homicide and manslaughter. That does not mean he committed no crime and that it is ok to do what he did. There is such a thing as jury nullification, meaning that some juries just won’t convict in certain situations (think Rodney king.) As far as I know there is no state where it is required for you to flee your own home rather thatn defend it with force. Someone above said that was the law in Minnesota. If so I would really like to see that in writing. You might have a problem if an intruder is shot in the back 20 feet away from you while trying to run out the door, but even then, if he is inside the home it is my understanding that you are on safe ground. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2007, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/64 "2007-07-30T11:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] That does not mean he committed no crime and that it is ok to do what he did. [/QUOTE] As far as the law is concerned, that is exactly what it means. Any moral implications are outside the jurisdiction of the court. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/65 "2007-07-30T14:51:06Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] doyou have an example of such a law? one that makes it illegal to protect yourself? [/QUOTE] I don’t; it’s just my sense of things from reading various news items (that may or may not be totally accurate). I think you might be picking at one particular point and perhaps I should have been more explicit; does changing my quote to “There’re very few laws, IMHO, that are more dehumanizing than those that make it illegal to protect oneself, _whatever the ultimate response_.” In other words, I was thinking of having to justify the use of a gun under even optimal circumstances (inside one’s home, intruder has a weapon, etc.). Given my understanding, some states have these “flee” laws in which the circumstances are _always_ questionable (whether they’re ultimately determined to be justified or not is a separate issue). ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/66 "2007-07-30T15:22:48Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] As far as the law is concerned, that is exactly what it means. Any moral implications are outside the jurisdiction of the court. [/QUOTE] You are wrong, it is not what it means. No precedent is set. He was tried by the state for committing a crime and the jury declared him not guilty as is their right. However if you do the same thing there is no reaon to believe that you will not be tried and no reason to believe that you will be acquitted. Nothing to do with right or wrong, except perhaps in the first juries’ minds. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2007, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/67 "2007-07-30T15:31:24Z")
[QUOTE=Digital Stimulus] I don’t; it’s just my sense of things from reading various news items (that may or may not be totally accurate). I think you might be picking at one particular point and perhaps I should have been more explicit; does changing my quote to “There’re very few laws, IMHO, that are more dehumanizing than those that make it illegal to protect oneself, _whatever the ultimate response_.” In other words, I was thinking of having to justify the use of a gun under even optimal circumstances (inside one’s home, intruder has a weapon, etc.). Given my understanding, some states have these “flee” laws in which the circumstances are _always_ questionable (whether they’re ultimately determined to be justified or not is a separate issue). [/QUOTE] I just take exception to your phrasing. I don’t know of any state that makes it illegal to protect yourself. There are laws that forbid the use of force where there is no personal threat to you and yours. Defense of property e.g. is not a reason to allow the use of force. Defense of your home, your person or the person of another is. What you may not do is make a bad situation worse. Where you have the option to fight or flee, prudence and probably the law, suggest you flee. ---
**Author:** ![sage10000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@sage10000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sage10000)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/68 "2012-01-03T19:43:15Z")
I think you are referring to the castle doctrine (named with the belief that your home is your castle). Here’s a wikki link that explains in detail along with the sates that have adopted such laws: > **[Castle doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine)** > > A castle doctrine, also known as a castle law or a defense of habitation law, is a legal doctrine that designates a person's abode or any legally occupied place (for example, a vehicle or home) as a place in which that person has protections and immunities permitting one, in certain circumstances, to use force (up to and including deadly force) to defend oneself against an intruder, free from legal prosecution for the consequences of the force used. The term is most commonly used in the United De... ---
**Author:** ![sage10000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@sage10000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sage10000)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/69 "2012-01-03T19:55:33Z")
> [@denquixote](#): > > I just take exception to your phrasing. I don’t know of any state that makes it illegal to protect yourself. There are laws that forbid the use of force where there is no personal threat to you and yours. Defense of property e.g. is not a reason to allow the use of force. Defense of your home, your person or the person of another is. What you may not do is make a bad situation worse. Where you have the option to fight or flee, prudence and probably the law, suggest you flee. Castle doctirine basically makes it so you have no duty to leave your home to avoid conflict. I agree with this law. No one has a right to enter a home uninvited. And a homeowner’s responsibility should NOT be to figure out the intentions of one who is breaking the law. Doing so cuts down on response time that could otherwise be used to protect themselves and their family. And YES in some sates you are NOT lawfully permitted to shoot someone breaking into YOUR house for that reason alone without “eminent threat” or similarly worded language in state laws. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/70 "2012-01-03T19:58:41Z")
This is a thread from 4.5 years ago, many of the people who posted are no longer here. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/71 "2012-01-03T20:31:04Z")
Brainns! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/72 "2012-01-03T23:05:22Z")
You’re definitely allowed to shoot zombies invading your home and no mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/73 "2012-01-04T15:22:25Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > You’re definitely allowed to shoot zombies invading your home and no mistake. Be sure you use [zombie ammo](http://www.hornady.com/ammunition/zombiemax)! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/74 "2012-01-04T17:29:55Z")
Hence the need for a verbal challenge: Zombies need to be shot in the brain to stop them. If you call out “Halt, or I’ll shoot!”, and you hear “braaaaaiiins…”, you know shooting for the center of mass won’t get the job done. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/75 "2012-01-04T18:56:24Z")
Well, since the thread has been revived and all, and since the mods haven’t closed it yet, I figured I’d drop [this](http://gma.yahoo.com/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder-911-operators-okay-091106413.html) in, since it’s fairly fresh and relevant: > [@](#): > > You’re allowed to shoot an unauthorized person that is in your home. The law provides you the remedy, and sanctions the use of deadly force," Det. Dan Huff of the Blanchard police said. -XT ---
**Author:** ![AndyLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@AndyLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyLee)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/76 "2012-01-04T19:05:26Z")
Remember the Simpsons: Chief) And once a man is in your house ANYTHING you do to him is nice and legal Homer) Oh Flanders, wanna come over Chief) Ah…It doesn’t work if you invite him in ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/77 "2012-01-05T02:39:24Z")
It varies by state, and anyone keeping a firearm in the home for personal defense would be well advised to have virtually a self-taught lawyer’s level of knowledge about exactly what their state’s laws say. In my home state of Minnesota you are only allowed to use deadly force “when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor’s place of abode”. Incidentally, simple trespass is a _misdemeanor_ in Minnesota. Meaning I can’t shoot someone just for coming into my house but I can in theory shoot them in the back to prevent their escaping out the door with my TiVo. (Which we had a thousand-post thread about). I’ve also heard that “Castle Doctrine” and “Stand Your Ground” are two non-synonymous terms, but I couldn’t give you a precise definition. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/78 "2012-01-05T06:40:33Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, since the thread has been revived and all, and since the mods haven’t closed it yet, I figured I’d drop [this](http://gma.yahoo.com/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder-911-operators-okay-091106413.html) in, since it’s fairly fresh and relevant: > > > [@](#): > > > > You’re allowed to shoot an unauthorized person that is in your home. The law provides you the remedy, and sanctions the use of deadly force," Det. Dan Huff of the Blanchard police said. When you get right down to it, she’d have been legally justified shooting him in or out of her house given that he was coming after her with a hunting knife. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/79 "2012-01-05T16:36:20Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] When you get right down to it, she’d have been legally justified shooting him in or out of her house given that he was coming after her with a hunting knife. [/QUOTE] True. But I’d have to say that anyone invading your house while you are in there is going to pose a plausible threat and justify the threat or use of deadly force. Granted, if the person turns tail when they realize someone is in the house and you follow them out and shoot them in the back you are probably crossing the line, but if you are in your house and someone breaks in there is no way to know what their intent is, or what they might try and do (take hostages? murder? rape? threaten?) I’d have to say you will almost surely be cleared of any charges, even assuming there were any charges pressed in the first place. -XT ---
**Author:** ![hadzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3d9bf3/32.png) [@hadzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hadzo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221/80 "2012-01-05T16:59:27Z")
imho, whoever tries to break into my home will be shot dead. I’ll deal with the repercussions later. Why the F\*\*\* are they breaking into someones house to begin with. They hit my house, bad luck, guns going of they dead. Boohooo crying human rights ppl cry over it… but what if it wasn’t my house but some single mom with her kids and they get raped and murdered??? what than a tragedy, F\*\*\* that send a dang message… STAY THE FUDGE AWAY FROM OTHER PPL PROPERTIES. If you are in need of help “Knock at the door!!!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-legally-own-a-gun-you-can-shoot-an-intruder-now-on-to-the-weather/413221.md?page=5)