# If you like your health insurance, you can keep it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356 "2015-02-11T01:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/81 "2015-02-11T17:15:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > So are you the same person as the user named Procrustus? Because that’s who I was originally replying to, regarding his fanciful claim. I’m just saying, and I’m also saying that you have no clue about how powerful interests are playing you. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/82 "2015-02-11T17:25:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I’m just saying, and I’m also saying that you have no clue about how powerful interests are playing you. No one is playing me. I have no use for the ACA, and neither does anyone that I know. Nor do _most_ Americans. As of this month, 10 million have enrolled in Obamacare, out of a population of 318 million. Just 3%. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/83 "2015-02-11T17:26:22Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No one is playing me. I have no use for the ACA, and neither does anyone that I know. Nor do _most_ Americans. As of this month, 10 million have enrolled in Obamacare, out of a population of 318 million. Just 3%. Then the downside must be minimal as well. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/84 "2015-02-11T17:36:46Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then the downside must be minimal as well. Hahahaha. No. ACA/Obamacare regulations have caused the insurance industry to rewrite their guidelines and policies. Everyone’s policy can be effected. The downside can be large, the upside seems to be relatively small. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/85 "2015-02-11T17:38:01Z")
And this is why I love democracy. We get to vote on it again in 2016. And we get to keep on voting on it as long as the voters think it’s an issue. You know which side is losing by who desperately wants the issue to be closed and settled. Be interesting to see how the few million voters who have to pay the mandate tax will feel about the law. ---
**Author:** ![Tuxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Tuxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuxie)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/86 "2015-02-11T17:40:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I [disagree](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18122424&postcount=605) that I play “political games to confuse”. I [disagree](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17890479&postcount=129) that I ever believed that Obama’s popularity doesn’t matter. I [disagree](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18108772&postcount=5) that I’m “sure that “lacking confidence in government” cannot possibly be happening”. > > That’s three assertions that you made about my beliefs that you failed to back up. You said those things, and you provided nothing to support your assertions. Incredibly lazy, cowardly, and obnoxious posting. Are you on your period or something? Calm down and go back to yelling at those kids playing in your front lawn. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/87 "2015-02-11T17:43:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No one is playing me. I have no use for the ACA, and neither does anyone that I know. Nor do _most_ Americans. As of this month, 10 million have enrolled in Obamacare, out of a population of 318 million. Just 3%. Well, then that is worse, you are just an ignorant on your own then, and the projections of the numbers of people that would use the law [are better than were expected](http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20140419/MAGAZINE/304199968), you are just moving the goal posts in a very clumsy way. And **Fear Itself** is correct: > **[Right-Wing Media Won't Tell You That The CBO's New Obamacare Cost Estimates...](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-friends/right-wing-media-wont-tell-you-cbos-new-obamacare-cost-estimates-are-lower-expected)** > > Conservative media hyped the findings of a new Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report as a "bombshell" that shows the costs of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) will be much higher than expected. But according to the CBO's report, the ACA will cost 20... > [@](#): > > Right-Wing Media Won’t Tell You That The CBO’s New Obamacare Cost Estimates Are Lower Than Expected > [@](#): > > Reuters: “CBO Lowers Cost Forecast For Obamacare’s Insurance Subsidies.” On January 26, the nonpartisan CBO released their budget and economic outlook for 2015 through 2024. As Reuters explained, the CBO report found that “Obamacare will cost 7 percent less than expected over the next decade for federal subsidies.” [Reuters, 1/26/15] On Edit: So haha to \*\*doorhinge \*\*too. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/88 "2015-02-11T17:45:35Z")
> [@Tuxie](#): > > Are you on your period or something? Calm down and go back to yelling at those kids playing in your front lawn. You seem to be unaware that even the mods are not amused by what \*\*adaher \*\*did to \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*there. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/89 "2015-02-11T17:46:46Z")
That’s not ACA costing less, that’s part of ACA costing less. CBO actually has refused to score the comprehensive bill anymore because so much has not been implemented. When the mandate actually applies to everyone over the income limits who doesn’t get health insurance, when the employer mandate actually applies to every employer, and when the Medicare Advantage cuts are fully implemented, then we can analyze how much it costs. In hindsight. Hopefully right around the 2020 election, so we’ll have another example of how they lied to sell the law. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/90 "2015-02-11T17:50:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You seem to be unaware that even the mods are not amused by what \*\*adaher \*\*did to \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*there. Fair enough, I did break the rules. I’m not used to such a rule in my discussion board career, so it just took me a couple warnings to get used to it. Not sure that I have done something TO iidandyii though. You just botched his name though, just like the moderator did.😃 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/91 "2015-02-11T17:53:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Fair enough, I did break the rules. I’m not used to such a rule in my discussion board career, so it just took me a couple warnings to get used to it. Not sure that I have done something TO iidandyii though. You just botched his name though, just like the moderator did.😃 You didn’t do anything _to_ me – you repeatedly invented stuff _about_ me (for the most part without even attempting to back up your assertions). Why was it so hard to stop? **GIGO** got my name right, by the way – count the i’s. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/92 "2015-02-11T18:05:59Z")
What, I’ve been wrong about that too? You sure you aren’t messing with me, changing it or something? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/93 "2015-02-11T18:15:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Fair enough, I did break the rules. I’m not used to such a rule in my discussion board career, so it just took me a couple warnings to get used to it. Not sure that I have done something TO iidandyii though. You just botched his name though, just like the moderator did.😃 So, if I get you correctly, you never thought there might be anything wrong with making unsupported claims about what another poster allegedly said? And if you did, It’s OK because people sometimes get a poster’s name wrong? Impressive. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/94 "2015-02-11T18:20:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What, I’ve been wrong about that too? You sure you aren’t messing with me, changing it or something? In all seriousness, your biggest problem is incredible laziness. You probably thought I said those things at the time that you posted them, but you couldn’t be bothered to check, and it didn’t really matter to you that you might be wrong. Even when I challenged you, repeatedly, you ignored me or just sidestepped. I (and others) have asked you again and again to just put a little more effort into your posts – it really isn’t that hard to be mostly right on factual assertions most of the time. And it all just rolls off you – with apparently no shame whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/95 "2015-02-11T18:21:03Z")
It is true that Obama did not go out of his way to draw attention to those who would “lose” in the puts, takes, and tradeoffs involved in passing the ACA. To the extent that he knew the carriers would soon likely pull the plug on the grandfathered plans, that was pretty cynical. I would call it being overzealous in selling a policy that was going to hugely benefit tens of millions at a potential inconvenience to a handful of millions, but I certainly don’t expect people who generally dislike Obama to extend to him that same charity. However, this whole “if you like your plan” affair provides a cautionary tale on how (not) to be a responsible opposition party. If he was obviously spouting this slogan that couldn’t possibly be true, it would have been a natural and constructive public service for the opposition party to point that out. Unfortunately they were too busy hammering spurious, over-the-top, demagogic claims about socialized medicine, a government takeover of 16% of the economy, and death panels to effectively point out real tradeoffs. It should not have been a surprise to anyone that certain people would lose their health plans, and Obama could have been challenged on this more _before_ the ACA was actually implemented. Instead of rendering a useful public service as the opposing party, Republicans gambled instead on maximum political gain through hysterical fear-mongering. “Although the ACA will provide health insurance to tens of millions who previously lacked it, between 2 and 4 million people _might_ lose their current plans (but will have the opportunity to buy new plans, likely with much more coverage and possibly with generous subsidies)” just doesn’t work as well as “Government takeover! Socialized medicine!” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/96 "2015-02-11T18:41:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If we don’t like this thread, can we get rid of it? Under my plan, it wouldn’t meet the minimum. I’m subsidizing it with insults. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/97 "2015-02-11T18:44:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > As referenced above, among actual participants, its rather popular. Why? Because so many of them had no actual insurance before now, and they like that now they do. _Tres_ duh, _mais non_? Of course it’s popular with them. It just another way that the government to hand something to the irresponsible on the backs of the responsible. > [@](#): > > Now, suppose you are an intelligent, aware person, like myself. Suppose you believe that the ACA is a start in the right direction, but woefully inadequate and in need of much, much improvement. You think it’s a step in the right direction to have taxpayers pay for yet another freebie? And before any of you start, I dare you to provide just ONE example of someone who legitimately was without insurance due to no fault of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/98 "2015-02-11T18:52:36Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The downside can be large, the upside seems to be relatively small. Millions of people have health insurance who didn’t have it before. Millions of people. Small upside my fucking ass. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/99 "2015-02-11T19:05:15Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Of course it’s popular with them. It just another way that the government to hand something to the irresponsible on the backs of the responsible. > > You think it’s a step in the right direction to have taxpayers pay for yet another freebie? > > And before any of you start, I dare you to provide just ONE example of someone who legitimately was without insurance due to no fault of their own. Well, for me it was the choice of not eating or having health insurance. The Cobra payments would had been a killer, then I did get health insurance with a mayor employer in the technology field. But once the contract ended so it was the insurance, things became worse when at my second job they cut my hours so it was the ACA or nothing, I can only say though that it already did save my life once so I will have to thank you indirectly even if you suck at being human. And also at being a failure in economics, the bottom line is that the past/current system was and remains an irrational one with a lot of waste with the whole of the USA paying more for health care and getting less good results and also with people with no access to health care. More changes are needed but the ACA will have to do in the meantime. > **[World Bank Open Data](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS)** > > Free and open access to global development data ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/100 "2015-02-11T19:17:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, for me it was the choice of not eating or having health insurance. The Cobra payments would had been a killer, then I did get health insurance with a mayor employer in the technology field. But once the contract ended so it was the insurance, things became worse when at my second job they cut my hours so it was the ACA or nothing, I can only say though that it already did save my life once so I will have to thank you indirectly even if you suck at being human. _I_ suck at being a human? If nothing else, all of this whining of yours is not proof that you were without insurance _thru no fault of your own_. Yes, COBRA payments are high, but why was it that you had to choose between them and eating? If the COBRA payments were going to be that high, you must have had a decent job. Yes, I know what it is like to pay for COBRA, we did it for eight months when my husband was suddenly laid off in 2008, $900+ a month. As for economics, try looking at how much it costs to give people all things they “cannot” pay for, not just health insurance. We live in a society of people who think they are “owed” or “deserve” things like new cars, house, kids, etc before they can actually afford them. People who have no concept of living on a budget, how credit works and any idea about what personal responsibility it. ACA is just the latest example of this problem, a problem you non-suck humans just keep ignoring, while you hand my retirement funds to people who didn’t do a thing to earn them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356.md?page=6)