# If you like your health insurance, you can keep it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356 "2015-02-11T01:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/101 "2015-02-11T19:22:50Z")
“Deserve” kids? Who deserves snot-sleeved, scabby-kneed, curtain climbing crumb snatchers following you around and begging for food and money? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/102 "2015-02-11T19:28:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I have no use for the ACA, and neither does anyone that I know. Nor do _most_ Americans. As of this month, 10 million have enrolled in Obamacare, out of a population of 318 million. Just 3%. I’m not really sure where you’re going with this, but it sounds like you’re saying people only care about things that personally affect them right now. I have campaigned for legalizing same-sex marriage, but I’m not gay. I’m in favor of retaining Social Security and unemployment insurance, though I’m not unemployed, old nor disabled. I support expanded funding for education, despite having no kids. You get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/103 "2015-02-11T19:30:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So they made that promise, even though the text of the law required such changes, and even though conservative commentators pointed out again and again that that law would require such changes. ANd you know how the administration responded? By calling it “fearmongering”. As **Donald Rump** points out, there _was_ an excessive amount of fearmongering going on. If some conservatives were quietly pointing out a [half truth](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/29/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-under-his-health-care-law-those-/), they were handily drowned out by [hyperbolic assholes](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/wolf-blitzer-grills-gop-rep-you-really-think-obamacare-will-destroy-america/) who said things like “This law is going to destroy America, and everything in America.” You can’t whitewash history here and claim that Republicans “called it” just because they threw everything at the wall and one thing stuck. > [@adaher](#): > > They lied, they further smeared their opponents on the issue, and then when the administration had an opportunity to make good on their promise, they only went halfway. They could have changed the grandfathering regulations at any time to grandfather ALL plans regardless of what they consisted of. It was the easiest thing to do. As others have pointed out, ultimately it comes down to the insurance companies that didn’t really care about following the rules for grandfathering, combined with Obama not making the limitations on grandfathering explicitly clear during stump speeches. What gets my goat, and I’m not sure why liberals give him a pass on this, is that Obama’s people probably knew full well that insurance companies wouldn’t bother with maintaining grandfathered plans. And that’s what makes it, at best, a half-truth. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/104 "2015-02-11T19:31:06Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Yes, COBRA payments are high, but why was it that you had to choose between them and eating? Because GIGObuster lives in a country where large numbers of people believe that: -Paying, per capita, twice what is paid in other modern countries -Having tens of millions of people uncovered by insurance -Having no better outcomes for those with insurance than other modern countries is actually BETTER than having universal coverage. People who claim to understand money think that spending twice as much for the same thing is the smart economic decision. GIGObuster lives in a country with those idiots, and therefore, has to pay out of pocket during a time of unemployment for something people in other countries get as a matter of course… while paying HALF what we pay. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/105 "2015-02-11T19:35:19Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > [Here you go.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php) 😃 Oh shit, he’s a “Florida Man”. This explains everything. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/106 "2015-02-11T19:40:55Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > We live in a society of people who think they are “owed” or “deserve” things like new cars, house, kids, etc before they can actually afford them. Tell me, what do you do when your house catches on fire? Do you “deserve” to have the fire department put out your fire? Why should my taxes pay to put out your house? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/107 "2015-02-11T19:42:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What, I’ve been wrong about that too? You sure you aren’t messing with me, changing it or something? You’ve been clearly spelling it wrong as a dig at **iiandyiiii** , b/c in the Elections forum thread that spawned this you spelled it wrong only a few posts after he had corrected **Jonathan Chance**. Your “Who me?” act is wearing thin. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/108 "2015-02-11T19:50:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > GIGObuster lives in a country with those idiots, and therefore, has to pay out of pocket during a time of unemployment for something people in other countries get as a matter of course… while paying HALF what we pay. **GIGObuster** lives in a country populated with far too many people who have been taught for generations that if something goes wrong in their lives, for any reason, someone else will take care of it for them. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Tell me, what do you do when your house catches on fire? Do you “deserve” to have the fire department put out your fire? Why should my taxes pay to put out your house? That stupid argument again? How about, I pay taxes to put out anyone’s house if for no other reason than I don’t like air pollution. Or their house might make mine catch fire. Or - here’s the big one - people who work and pay those taxes have earned the right to have that fire department. Having a fire department is not the same thing as handing something to someone that they have done nothing to earn. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/109 "2015-02-11T19:54:10Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > **GIGObuster** lives in a country populated with far too many people who have been taught for generations that if something goes wrong in their lives, for any reason, someone else will take care of it for them. > > That stupid argument again? How about, I pay taxes to put out anyone’s house if for no other reason than I don’t like air pollution. Or their house might make mine catch fire. Or - here’s the big one - people who work and pay those taxes have earned the right to have that fire department. > > Having a fire department is not the same thing as handing something to someone that they have done nothing to earn. Says the welfare queen. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/110 "2015-02-11T20:11:00Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Or - here’s the big one - people who work and pay those taxes have earned the right to have that fire department. In that case, I deserve my Obamacare subsidy, because I pay taxes! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/111 "2015-02-11T20:17:10Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Says the welfare queen. Yeah, i thought i was misremembering for a minute, because i try to avoid the troglodyte morons on the board, but i thought **curlcoat** was one of those people who hates every type of government taxation and income redistribution program except the ones that directly benefit her and her family. Your post seems to suggest that i remember correctly, but i don’t recall the specific details, and the board’s search function is being typically useless right now. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/112 "2015-02-11T20:21:54Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Says the welfare queen. Nope, never taken welfare even when I qualified for it. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > In that case, I deserve my Obamacare subsidy, because I pay taxes! Maybe. Depends on why you needed it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/113 "2015-02-11T20:22:43Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Maybe. Depends on why you needed it. What are the approved reasons? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/114 "2015-02-11T20:27:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What are the approved reasons? You don’t understand the concept of personal responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/115 "2015-02-11T20:33:19Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Yeah, i thought i was misremembering for a minute, because i try to avoid the troglodyte morons on the board, but i thought **curlcoat** was one of those people who hates every type of government taxation and income redistribution program except the ones that directly benefit her and her family. > > Your post seems to suggest that i remember correctly, but i don’t recall the specific details, and the board’s search function is being typically useless right now. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11318024&postcount=60) is **curlcoat** ’s post declaring she doesn’t work and relies on SSDI. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/116 "2015-02-11T20:35:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s a huge difference in consequences between just telling a lie(something all politicians do), and lying to sell a policy that has real consequences for Americans. The administration knew the state of public opinion: the only way to pass health care reform was for Americans who liked their insurance to not see any changes. So they made that promise, even though the text of the law required such changes, and even though conservative commentators pointed out again and again that that law would require such changes. ANd you know how the administration responded? By calling it “fearmongering”. > > They lied, they further smeared their opponents on the issue, and then when the administration had an opportunity to make good on their promise, they only went halfway. They could have changed the grandfathering regulations at any time to grandfather ALL plans regardless of what they consisted of. It was the easiest thing to do. IIRC, the smearing went both ways. Or am I the only one that recalls bringing up the spectre of medicare cuts. I for one agree with Schumer that Obama wasted precious political capital on a legacy when we needed all the political capital we could beg borrow and steal for financial reform and a more efficient stimulus package. Its not like the political capital was wasted but it could have been better spent. However, I don’t think they just crammed this down our throats. IIRC, they spent a lot of time and made a lot of compromises to try to make the Republicans happier and they still didn’t get a single goddam Republican vote. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/117 "2015-02-11T20:36:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11318024&postcount=60) is **curlcoat** ’s post declaring she doesn’t work and relies on SSDI. Wow, you really don’t have a brain do you? How does that post translate into: Me “declaring” I don’t work? Me "relying on SSDI? SSDI is welfare? Clue - it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/118 "2015-02-11T20:37:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11318024&postcount=60) is **curlcoat** ’s post declaring she doesn’t work and relies on SSDI. Hehe reminds me of the guy that played Coach saying that he was on food stamps and he never got a handout from anyone. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/119 "2015-02-11T20:38:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Wow, you really don’t have a brain do you? How does that post translate into: > > Me “declaring” I don’t work? > Me "relying on SSDI? > SSDI is welfare? > Clue - it doesn’t. LOL. “Declaring” is another word for “saying”. Here’s the exact quote: “Hell, I’m on SSDI myself, tho I managed to make it to 51 before I had to give up working.” What did I say about welfare? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/120 "2015-02-11T20:41:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > the projections of the numbers of people that would use the law [are better than were expected](http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20140419/MAGAZINE/304199968), you are just moving the goal posts in a very clumsy way. > > And **Fear Itself** is correct: > > [Right-Wing Media Won't Tell You That The CBO's New Obamacare Cost Estimates Are Lower Than Expected | Media Matters for America](http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/01/27/right-wing-media-wont-tell-you-that-the-cbos-ne/202280) What difference does it make (to quote the former Secretary of State), if the number is 8 million or 10 million? Why should we, as a nation, waste all of this time, money, Congressional hearings, Supreme Court arguments, IRS rulings, unconstitutional Executive actions, etc. to benefit some 3% of the population? Not to mention the people who can’t keep their plan or their doctor, those that face higher premiums, and those who will have a surprise come April when their refund is reduced, or find out that they owe taxes, because the subsidies were too high under the law? Why did we do any of this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356.md?page=7)