# If you like your health insurance, you can keep it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356 "2015-02-11T01:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/121 "2015-02-11T20:44:01Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You don’t understand the concept of personal responsibility? Indulge me. Under what circumstances would you admit that a tax payer deserves an Obamacare subsidy? ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/122 "2015-02-11T20:57:34Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Wow, you really don’t have a brain do you? How does that post translate into: > > Me “declaring” I don’t work? > Me "relying on SSDI? > SSDI is welfare? > Clue - it doesn’t. SSDI is a government program that provides benefits to disabled people in excess of the amount they would receive if those benefits were based solely on the amounts contributed by that person. This means that the program provides more to you because you are determined to have a need for support. You know, because you are needy. That fits the definition of welfare. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/123 "2015-02-11T21:11:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > …Quote: > Right-Wing Media Won’t Tell You That The CBO’s New Obamacare Cost Estimates Are Lower Than Expected > > Quote: > Reuters: “CBO Lowers Cost Forecast For Obamacare’s Insurance Subsidies.” On January 26, the nonpartisan CBO released their budget and economic outlook for 2015 through 2024. As Reuters explained, the CBO report found that “Obamacare will cost 7 percent less than expected over the next decade for federal subsidies.” [Reuters, 1/26/15] > > On Edit: So haha to \*\*doorhinge \*\*too. (post shortened) Hahahaha. Lower than EXPECTED. Less than EXPECTED. In other words, the cost will still be higher but not as high as they originally predicted. What a cost savings. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/124 "2015-02-11T21:13:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Hahahaha. Lower than EXPECTED. Less than EXPECTED. In other words, the cost will still be higher but not as high as they originally predicted. What a cost savings. :smack: How is “lower than expected” not a cost savings? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/125 "2015-02-11T21:19:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How is “lower than expected” not a cost savings? I was going to arbitrarily force you pay $900 but have generously decided to only arbitrarily charge you $800. You’re welcome for the $100 “cost savings”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/126 "2015-02-11T21:23:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I was going to arbitrarily force you pay $900 but have generously decided to only arbitrarily charge you $800. You’re welcome for the $100 “cost savings”. What is arbitrary about it? $100 is $100. Maybe not a lot to you, but to many people, that’s groceries. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/127 "2015-02-11T22:20:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What is arbitrary about it? $100 is $100. Maybe not a lot to you, but to many people, that’s groceries. I would prefer it if I wasn’t forced to pay the $900 or the $800. How do you expect to buy groceries if you’re forced to pay the $800? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/128 "2015-02-11T22:34:19Z")
With money? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/129 "2015-02-11T22:35:25Z")
> [@stretch](#): > > SSDI is a government program that provides benefits to disabled people in excess of the amount they would receive if those benefits were based solely on the amounts contributed by that person. This means that the program provides more to you because you are determined to have a need for support. You know, because you are needy. That fits the definition of welfare. Yes, but you’re missing the key point. Check out the [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11318024&postcount=60) linked by **iiandyiiii** , above, in which **curlcoat** makes clear that a key issue here is whether or not you are “sitting back with an entitlement attitude towards your SSDI and Medicare.” If you don’t have that “entitlement attitude”—and believe me, **curlcoat** can sense it right through the internet—then you’re good, and you can take as many of other people’s tax dollars as you want. And because **curlcoat** herself is a conservative, and believes in self-reliance and small government, she (by definition) does not have the entitlement attitude, and so it’s OK for her to benefit from government programs above and beyond what she contributes to the system, and to use the contributions of other taxpayers for her own benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/130 "2015-02-11T22:53:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Are you so angry that you forgot to answer the question asked in the OP? Do you believe Obama lied when he said, “If you like your health insurance, you can keep it”? I addressed that in a previous post. You’ll note, Adaher, in typical lying-coward fashion has ignored my question about it. I was responding to you, and your anecdote, in which you think your employer giving you something is the same as you having it forever and ever. > [@](#): > > I was very happy with (aka liked) my old insurance. My new insurance costs are based on the requirements of ACA/Obamacare. Obama lied and the public was gruberized. Your insurance was changed by your employers. You have no recourse and have to accept what they give you. Also, the fact that you think \*gruberized \*is a telling bit of snark suggests you’re not all that clever. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/131 "2015-02-12T00:12:45Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What difference does it make (to quote the former Secretary of State), if the number is 8 million or 10 million? > > Why should we, as a nation, waste all of this time, money, Congressional hearings, Supreme Court arguments, IRS rulings, unconstitutional Executive actions, etc. to benefit some 3% of the population? Not to mention the people who can’t keep their plan or their doctor, those that face higher premiums, and those who will have a surprise come April when their refund is reduced, or find out that they owe taxes, because the subsidies were too high under the law? > > Why did we do any of this? Because people like Romney in Massachusetts were indeed human beings, although he attempts to deny it nowadays. And don’t follow the real stupid points of the Republicans (there is a thread for that already 🙂 ). If the executive orders were really seen as unconstitutional by the Republicans they would had moved to impeach already, they are only pulling your chain (while you continue to claim that no one is manipulating you). ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/132 "2015-02-12T01:19:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > If the executive orders were really seen as unconstitutional by the Republicans they would had moved to impeach already. It’s not _just_ the executive orders that are unconstitutional. The administration has been overruled by the Supreme Court a whole bunch of times, even 9-0. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/133 "2015-02-12T01:58:40Z")
Also, impeachment is a pretty blunt tool. If necessary, there should be an amendment to provide for lesser means of punishing a President. One might be to simply automatically grant any Congressmen standing to contest an executive order that is believed to be illegal. SCOTUS historically has been reluctant to wade into legislative/executive disputes, but it might be time for them to start doing it. Congress is well on its way to being an inferior branch, since they can pass all the laws they want and it won’t matter if the President can enforce only those he wishes to, and alter them as he sees fit. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/134 "2015-02-12T03:11:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s not _just_ the executive orders that are unconstitutional. The administration has been overruled by the Supreme Court a whole bunch of times, even 9-0. Again, then they should impeach him, and you are just moving the goal posts again, we are talking about Obamacare over here and how you are just swallowing the Republican congressional bullshit that even they do think is a crappy argument as we can see for their pandering actions. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/135 "2015-02-12T03:31:19Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again, then they should impeach him, and you are just moving the goal posts again, we are talking about Obamacare over here and how you are just swallowing the Republican congressional bullshit that even they do think is a crappy argument as we can see for their pandering actions. You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/136 "2015-02-12T03:32:56Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > “If you like your girlfriend, you can keep her.” > > Now, does this mean that I’m going to force her to stay with you, or that I won’t break you up? Fuck that. When I get sick of the bitch I’ll ice her. Until then she’s mine, and if she tries to leave I’ll kill her. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/137 "2015-02-12T03:40:16Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re wrong. Well then, I think that then we will see his impeachment coming soon because the republicans are telling us the truth about Obamacare and the executive acts of the president regarding it… Any moment now… No, really… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/138 "2015-02-12T03:43:32Z")
I know this is the Pit, but doth he ne’er stop? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/139 "2015-02-12T06:35:50Z")
So I see this thread and I go, wow, someone revived an old thread! I wonder why, since it’s such an old, played out topic! And then I see it was started on 02-10-2015 at 08:40 PM (my time). Oh, okay, this is bullshit. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/140 "2015-02-12T06:44:52Z")
> [@Mona\_Lott](#): > > Please tell me what the Republican plan for health care reform is. Repeal the ACA and not do anything to replace it. The free market will fix it, according to some crank who wrote in to the San Diego Union Tribune a few days ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356.md?page=8)