# If you like your health insurance, you can keep it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356 "2015-02-11T01:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/141 "2015-02-12T12:22:34Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > So I see this thread and I go, wow, someone revived an old thread! I wonder why, since it’s such an old, played out topic! And then I see it was started on 02-10-2015 at 08:40 PM (my time). > > Oh, okay, this is bullshit. Got it. I hate to say this is all about me, but this thread was started because **adaher** was too damn lazy to actually back up his citeless, support-free assertions about me. Seriously. See my post [#43](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18125142&postcount=43). It has the links and everything. ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/142 "2015-02-12T15:53:13Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Wow, you really don’t have a brain do you? How does that post translate into: > > Me “declaring” I don’t work? > Me "relying on SSDI? > SSDI is welfare? > Clue - it doesn’t. I work for SSA and personally handle SSDI claims all the time. I can guarantee you that the money you are receiving now (and will likely receive until age 65, barring a cessation) will vastly outweigh what you contributed from your wages. Is this okay? Why or why not? Enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/143 "2015-02-12T16:14:38Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Repeal the ACA and not do anything to replace it. The free market will fix it, according to some crank who wrote in to the San Diego Union Tribune a few days ago. Ah, that must be why our health care was so cheap and efficient before the ACA was passed. I don’t know if this is a larger trend among the right wing, but **adaher** , at least, doesn’t seem to be calling it “Obamacare” much anymore. I guess since Obama can’t run again there’s no sense in using it to weigh him down. I expect them to try and tie it around the neck of the next Democratic presidential nominee, “Hillarycare”, “Bidencare”, something like that. Or just start calling it “Democare” if they want to cover all the bases. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/144 "2015-02-12T16:20:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Because people like Romney in Massachusetts were indeed human beings, although he attempts to deny it nowadays. > > And don’t follow the real stupid points of the Republicans (there is a thread for that already 🙂 ). If the executive orders were really seen as unconstitutional by the Republicans they would had moved to impeach already, they are only pulling your chain (while you continue to claim that no one is manipulating you). And Romneycare was also Gruberized. By Gruber. Gruber did such a great job of misleading the public that the Democrats brought him on board to Gruberize ACA/Obamacare. Impeachment requires a two-thirds vote in the U.S. House. It’s obvious that that number of votes simply are not there. And your attempt to manipulate people doesn’t seem to be very successful. IMHO, of course. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/145 "2015-02-12T16:24:45Z")
Perhaps you could provide your definition of _gruberize_, in the cause of fighting our ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/146 "2015-02-12T16:25:16Z")
Why was this thread started? Oh yeah, to find out if people believe Obama was lying when he repeatedly said, “If you like your health insurance, you can keep it”. > [@adaher](#): > > If you like your health insurance, you can keep it > > Resolved: the President lied when he said this. > > Anyone disagree?😃 Yes, Obama lied. Repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/147 "2015-02-12T16:26:24Z")
[Gruberized.](http://www.causticsodapodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2013/05/hans-gruber-fall-1080.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/148 "2015-02-12T16:26:42Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I expect them to try and tie it around the neck of the next Democratic presidential nominee, “Hillarycare”, “Bidencare”, something like that. Or just start calling it “Democare” if they want to cover all the bases. More than that - they’re already trying to take credit for it instead, and you’ll see more of that in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/149 "2015-02-12T16:43:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > More than that - they’re already trying to take credit for it instead, and you’ll see more of that in the future. Seriously? I haven’t seen that yet, but I’ll keep an eye out for it. Pretty ballsy strategy, I must say. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/150 "2015-02-12T16:45:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Perhaps you could provide your definition of _gruberize_, in the cause of fighting our ignorance? Do you mean _your_ ignorance? Gruberizing is the act of deliberately lying to, or deliberately confusing, the voters into supporting passage of a bill that the voters might not have supported if they had been given the facts and trusted with the truth. Why tell the truth and risk losing the implementation of an unwritten, confusing bill. As Pinocchio Pelosi said - “but we have to pass the bill so that you can, ah, find out what is in it.” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/KoE1R-xH5To/hqdefault.jpg "Pelosi: we have to pass the health care bill so that you can find out what is in it") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/151 "2015-02-12T17:05:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Gruberizing is the act of deliberately lying to, or deliberately confusing, the voters into supporting passage of a bill that the voters might not have supported if they had been given the facts and trusted with the truth. It’s interesting that, in order to give a name to this phenomenon, you and millions of other morons have chosen a person involved with the current administration. I don’t want to give you the vapors or anything, but some of us who actually understand politics recognize that politicians have been doing this for decades at least, and more likely centuries. Don’t get me wrong: i’m glad you’ve finally come to understand how politics works. I’m just a little bit surprised that it took you so long, and that this strategy is apparently new to you. Were you not paying attention when the Bush administration gave its reasons for invading Iraq? Have you ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin? The Strategic Defense Initiative? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/152 "2015-02-12T17:11:31Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s interesting that, in order to give a name to this phenomenon, you and millions of other morons have chosen a person involved with the current administration. > > I don’t want to give you the vapors or anything, but some of us who actually understand politics recognize that politicians have been doing this for decades at least, and more likely centuries. > > Don’t get me wrong: i’m glad you’ve finally come to understand how politics works. I’m just a little bit surprised that it took you so long, and that this strategy is apparently new to you. Were you not paying attention when the Bush administration gave its reasons for invading Iraq? Have you ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin? The Strategic Defense Initiative? I’m glad you find it interesting. Gruberized works for me. What about the Gulf of Tonkin? Which Gulf of Tonkin incident are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/153 "2015-02-12T17:14:38Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Do you mean _your_ ignorance? > > Gruberizing is the act of deliberately lying to, or deliberately confusing, the voters into supporting passage of a bill that the voters might not have supported if they had been given the facts and trusted with the truth. I wonder what **doorhing** ing is…? Maybe “repeating Limbaugh spiels as if they represent a factual view of the world”? “Buying Republican talking points hook, line, and sinker”? [Maybe](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=741905&page=5) “hiding one’s true desire to cavort with honey dabbed, muscular Adonises”? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/154 "2015-02-12T17:18:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Gruberizing is the act of deliberately lying to, or deliberately confusing, the voters into supporting passage of a bill that the voters might not have supported if they had been given the facts and trusted with the truth. Is \*that \*what happened? :dubious: > [@](#): > > As Pinocchio Pelosi said - “but we have to pass the bill so that you can, ah, find out what is in it.” Yes, you do have to experience it for yourself so you can recognize the lies about it that were and still are being told to you, by people you continue to trust for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/155 "2015-02-12T17:19:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wonder what **doorhing** ing is…? For one thing, pretending Chris Christie was innocent of all wrongdoing in Bridgegate. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/156 "2015-02-12T17:56:21Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Seriously? I haven’t seen that yet, but I’ll keep an eye out for it. Pretty ballsy strategy, I must say. There are multiple Republican governors, in Florida and Nevada and soon others, who are finally implementing Medicaid expansion while trying not to mention that they’re part of ACA. Even the “replace” part of “repeal and replace” showed the strategy right from the get-go - and the few bullet-point “ideas” they’ve put out (still no actual bill) in the following years are simply parts of Obamacare but with some protections removed. It will take a few more years of transition, for people to recognize what it is from their own experience instead of RNC/Fox lies, as Pelosi predicted, for it to happen, and for the “Kenyan” (code word) guy to leave office, but the trend is already toward ACA being claimed as a Heritage Foundation idea that was proven out by Romney - and that’s even pretty much true as far as it goes, better yet. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/157 "2015-02-12T18:00:19Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > As Pinocchio Pelosi said - “but we have to pass the bill so that you can, ah, find out what is in it.” > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To) Willfully distorting and misrepresenting the meaning of statements by politicians you dislike does wonders for your credibility. In a bad sense. Especially when your interlocutors know exactly what said politician actually meant. Of course, what difference at this point does it make? You’re just going to keep doorhingizing all of us into a doorhinged stupor. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/158 "2015-02-12T19:49:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL. “Declaring” is another word for “saying”. Here’s the exact quote: “Hell, I’m on SSDI myself, tho I managed to make it to 51 before I had to give up working.” What did I say about welfare? You are responding to those who equate Social Security with welfare. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Indulge me. Under what circumstances would you admit that a tax payer deserves an Obamacare subsidy? Someone who actually planned for the future and did everything they could to ensure they could pay their own bills. Cuts out a large percentage of the population. > [@stretch](#): > > SSDI is a government program that provides benefits to disabled people in excess of the amount they would receive if those benefits were based solely on the amounts contributed by that person. This means that the program provides more to you because you are determined to have a need for support. You know, because you are needy. That fits the definition of welfare. Wrong, try again. I get significantly _less_ than if I’d made it to 65. And whether I end up getting more than I put in depends on how long I manage to live. And it has zero to do with whether or not a person is needy - millionaires are eligible to get their Social Security when they qualify. That word “contribute” is the important difference between SSDI and welfare. It’s amazing how many people here make pronouncements on shit they no very little about. > [@mhendo](#): > > Yes, but you’re missing the key point. > > Check out the [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11318024&postcount=60) linked by **iiandyiiii** , above, in which **curlcoat** makes clear that a key issue here is whether or not you are “sitting back with an entitlement attitude towards your SSDI and Medicare.” If you don’t have that “entitlement attitude”—and believe me, **curlcoat** can sense it right through the internet—then you’re good, and you can take as many of other people’s tax dollars as you want. Medicare? I’m not on Medicare, so why throw that in? The difference here is I _am_ entitled to Social Security because it is _my_ money that the government took out of my paycheck without my approval for decades. Its a pension plan I was forced to contribute to. How you can equate that with people who just blither thru life and expect to be given things they haven’t earned, I really don’t know. > [@](#): > > And because **curlcoat** herself is a conservative, and believes in self-reliance and small government, she (by definition) does not have the entitlement attitude, and so it’s OK for her to benefit from government programs above and beyond what she contributes to the system, and to use the contributions of other taxpayers for her own benefit. Boy howdy, you are batting a 1000 here. I am not a conservative - I have some conservative views and some liberal ones. I do believe in self-_responsibility_ but have no opinion on the size of government. I do not have “the entitlement attitude” because that is used to describe people who expect something for nothing, and all I “expect” is what I’ve earned. And again, you all keep assuming that I will live long enough to take out in SSDI as much as I put in plus interest. If nothing else, the suicide rate in people like me tends to be rather high. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/159 "2015-02-12T20:16:29Z")
On your estimate, what percentage of people receiving welfare benefits can reasonably described as > [@curlcoat](#): > > people who just blither thru life and expect to be given things they haven’t earned as opposed to being people > [@curlcoat](#): > > who actually planned for the future and did everything they could to ensure they could pay their own bills but despite their best efforts were unsuccessful in doing so? And do you have any data to support your estimate? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356/160 "2015-02-12T20:22:14Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > And do you have any data to support your estimate? Nobody seems to, other than the rise in the percentage of people on welfare here in CA. I have tried to find any sort of study on this and apparently nobody is interested in looking at the root of the problem rather than the symptoms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-like-your-health-insurance-you-can-keep-it/712356.md?page=9)