# If you’re a liberal/leftist, what’s the best country in the world? How perfect is it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821 "2024-11-06T22:10:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/1 "2024-11-06T22:10:36Z")
From the totality of “I think such a person’s quality of life is best there, regardless of social demographics,” “least problematic or most actively worked-on history and current policy/institutions,” whatever angle you can think of. And what are its problem areas, assuming there is no leftist paradise out there? Just something I’ve pondered considering years of such folks leaving their home countries. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/2 "2024-11-06T22:16:25Z")
Switzerland usually tops the list of best countries to live in. Denmark and Sweden and Norway are usually up there as well as Canada. In Asia I would think Japan. New Zealand should figure in somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/3 "2024-11-06T22:21:41Z")
Yeah, but my point is that “best country to live in” doesn’t necessarily (by my knowledge) equate to “ideal leftist society,” unless it’s true that such lists do mean “as close to liberal and leftist ideals in all respects that exists in the world.” Does it? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/4 "2024-11-06T22:39:14Z")
I can’t think of a right-leaning country I’d like to live in but, then, I lean left so makes sense I guess. Perhaps some right-leaning posters can say which right-leaning countries they’d prefer to live in. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/5 "2024-11-07T00:17:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > New Zealand should figure in somewhere. A couple who are good friends of ours just took up part-time residence there. They absolutely love it. Cost-of-living is at least as high as it is here, but there are more and better government services (medical care, for instance), and the pace of living is much more relaxed. After yesterday, they may make their residency permanent. The gotcha is the requirements to obtain a residency visa. In their case, they invested a bunch of their money in various NZ financial vehicles. And ‘a bunch’ is somewhere around 7 million US dollars, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/6 "2024-11-07T07:08:24Z")
There is no ideal leftist society. That’s the point of ideals. Social democratic exemplars (Scandinavia? Netherlands? Germany?) have substantial and influential nativist-shading-to-outright-racist political parties. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/7 "2024-11-07T07:12:08Z")
Seems to me it would be Iceland, Canada, and Scandinavia. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/8 "2024-11-07T07:15:57Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > There is no ideal leftist society. I suspected. So where do they come closest? > [@Velocity](#): > > Seems to me it would be Iceland, **Canada** , and Scandinavia. Emphasis mine. I’m not sure of that, personally, if the Canadian leftists I come across are typical. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/9 "2024-11-07T07:32:13Z")
There’s no place like home. It’s awfully hard to move to these places. It’s really expensive and takes a long time to do it. And they don’t want just anyone. You have to have something to offer. I doubt Canada would take anyone right now. Anything near 3rd world is gonna be uncomfortable and probably dangerous. No place is completely left. I imagine most aren’t left at all. Look at the statistics. This isn’t just happening in America. Many fine countries are moving to the right. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/10 "2024-11-07T07:38:18Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Many fine countries are moving to the right. ISTM that is because people living in shitty right-wing countries want to move to better places which are the left-leaning countries. The people in the left-leaning countries like their country as it is and are not happy with the influx of immigrants. Tensions ensue. ETA: Which, ironically, moves the left leaning country to the right. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/11 "2024-11-07T08:06:14Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > > [@Velocity](#): > > > > Seems to me it would be Iceland, **Canada** , and Scandinavia. > > Emphasis mine. > > I’m not sure of that, personally, if the Canadian leftists I come across are typical. Maybe you could expand on that a bit, because I don’t know what you’re referring to. What are these “leftists” doing that’s objectionable, and why do you think they’re typical? There is certainly no ideal society anywhere, but I’ve always considered myself very lucky to live in Canada – and especially so after yesterday’s US election. Canada is far from perfect, but we aspire – largely successfully – to a compassionate, peaceful, and just society. We have universal health care, meaningful gun control, no school shootings, livable big cities with relatively low crime, and generally sane governance at all three levels of government. In another thread discussing LGBTQ issues, someone cited **[this article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/03/07/most-homophobic-countries-lgbtq-friendly-gay-travel-dangerous-places/)** which rates Canada as the #1 most LGBTQ-friendly country in the world. While this is not the subject of this thread, it can be taken as a proxy for a generally compassionate society. For instance, Canada admitted more than an order of magnitude more Syrian refugees on a per-capita basis than the US did, and many Canadians welcomed them into their own homes until they could find their own accommodations. Most weren’t particularly well-educated, but they were competent tradesmen who are now productive members of society. Canada does have a lot of conservatives, of course, and that’s fine, because there’s nothing wrong with conservatism as an economic policy. But conservative wingnuttery has never really gotten any traction here, I think largely because we have responsible journalism and a vibrant public broadcasting network. There was one attempt some years ago to launch a right-wing propaganda cable channel that mimicked Fox News, but it was regarded as a joke and fizzled after a couple of months of no one watching it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/12 "2024-11-07T13:31:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > In Asia I would think Japan. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I can’t think of a right-leaning country I’d like to live in but, then, I lean left so makes sense I guess. You do know that Japan is a very right leaning country, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/13 "2024-11-07T14:02:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Seems to me it would be Iceland, **Canada** , and Scandinavia. Emphasis mine. It may depend heavily on where in Canada you move to. I’m in Alberta, the “Texas of Canada”. It’s becoming uncomfortably right-wing. Our premiere, Danielle Smith, apparently holds Texas up as a model to emulate. [She recently brought Tucker Carlson here to speak](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI4Zfdp4NMY)… at taxpayer’s expense. Her party, the UCP, intends to reclassify CO2 from a pollutant to a “foundational nutrient for all life on Earth”. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/14 "2024-11-07T15:34:38Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > It may depend heavily on where in Canada you move to. I’m in Alberta, the “Texas of Canada”. It’s becoming uncomfortably right-wing. You’re correct that Alberta is an anomaly within Canada and tends to be very conservative, especially its sometimes-crazy provincial government. But at the same time, it’s still part of Canada and has all of the benefits of living in Canada that I mentioned before – universal health care, meaningful gun control, no school shootings, livable big cities with relatively low crime, etc. Also a few things I didn’t mention, like unrestricted access to abortion, because that and most of the other things are the result of federal policies and jurisdiction. Alberta also has a first-rate and well-funded public school system; Alberta’s is often considered to be among the best in Canada, which by the global standings of Canada’s public education systems makes it among the best in the world. And despite being generally very conservative, Alberta did recently have an NDP government, which is a socialist-leaning party, and is flanked on both sides by two of the most liberal provinces in Canada. Saskatchewan, in fact, is where universal health care first originated when everyone else was afraid to touch it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/15 "2024-11-08T13:31:27Z")
2 posts were merged into an existing topic: [FreakinLiberal posts and his thread: Why no “introduce yourself” section?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freakinliberal-posts-and-his-thread-why-no-introduce-yourself-section/1009850/19) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/17 "2024-11-07T16:40:04Z")
Just to mention that the last time the Regressive Conservative (as opposed to the predecessor Progressive Conservative) party ran the government their appointed science minister was a creationist. And the Conservatives are virtually certain to form the next government and their leader (whom I call Peter Rabbitskin) is a dyed-in-the-wool Alberta (that is Texas North) Conservative. Then there is Quebec whose government seems to think that the duty of the citizen is to serve the government, rather than vice versa. So while I will certainly stay here (no more thoughts of moving to the US), it is not a liberal paradise. I have spent nearly three years of my life living in Switzerland and enjoyed it thoroughly. It is certainly not left/liberal, but the Government provides many services and health care is cheap. When my son was born there, the cost of pre-natal care plus 7 days in the hospital came to SFr 350. Multiply by 10 for inflation and it is still cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/18 "2024-11-07T18:45:34Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > universal health care For now. The UCP has been pretty blatant in their efforts to underfund healthcare in this province, in preparation to privatize it. Edmonton (where I live) desperately needs more doctors and nurses, and the south side really needs a new hospital. There’s a cleared field just around the corner from my house which _was_ going to be a new hospital… until the UCP cut the funding for it. Now it’s just a big pile of dirt. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/19 "2024-11-07T18:56:04Z")
Access to legal rec cannabis knocks out a lot of paradises. No Iceland, New Zealand, Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/20 "2024-11-07T19:13:35Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Access to legal rec cannabis knocks out a lot of paradises. Until April of this year, I would have nominated [Freetown Christiania](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821/21 "2024-11-07T19:14:05Z")
Has Portugal been brought up yet? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-re-a-liberal-leftist-what-s-the-best-country-in-the-world-how-perfect-is-it/1009821.md?page=2)