# If you saw a miracle tomorrow **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792 "2010-06-11T13:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/201 "2010-06-16T02:54:42Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Further, the trial reported in the Gospels is rife with errors. The time the sanhedrin is said to have convened is wrong. The penalty of crucifixion is a Roman penalty. A Sanhedrin would have imposed death by stoning. And we’re not even sure they _had_ that much marijuana on hand due to everybody returning home for the holiday and self-medicating so they could deal with their families and… …what? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/202 "2010-06-16T02:58:17Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > And we’re not even sure they _had_ that much marijuana on hand due to everybody returning home for the holiday and self-medicating so they could deal with their families and… > > …what? I am understandably confused by your response to my post. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/203 "2010-06-16T03:02:08Z")
Death by _stoning_. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/204 "2010-06-16T04:01:13Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Maybe someone else can answer why Jesus wouldn’t be a natural choice to put as the one coming at the end of the days. Ask the Christians why someone would put Jesus, or another Muslim but I doubt to be honest a Muslim would stay here very long when they read some of the things written here. I wonder how many Muslims there are actually. > Not many I bet. > Shame that because they would be able to clear up many misunderstandings of what they believe and what you think they believe but I cannot see many posting here. > > Very little respect shown here to people of religion. > > بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم Yeah, sorry about that, dude. But that’s the thing about atheists–they tend to be pretty irreverent. See, because they (well, we) take this idea that everyone else sees as _sacred_, as beyond crassness or humor, and we just treat it as another part of life. So those of us that are normally sarcastic about stuff are sarcastic about religion, and those of us that are aggressive against what they don’t like hate on religion. It’s part and parcel of dealing with atheists, I think. At least, if you deal with us when we’re among ourselves. Obviously, if we go to a religious place, we’ll be more respectful just out of human decency. Anyway, sorry to see you go…you seem like a pretty reasonable guy, and heaven knows we could use those in GD. Good luck spreading the word! ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/205 "2010-06-16T06:27:08Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Maybe someone else can answer why Jesus wouldn’t be a natural choice to put as the one coming at the end of the days. A) What if there isn’t an end of days? B) There’s more evidence for Robin Hood or King Arthur genuinely existing than there is for Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/206 "2010-06-16T11:54:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And what would that truth be? What ever the truth is! This supreme being would make the truth known to all. I do not make claim to know the truth, I just have my beliefs about what it could be. That is what I strive for. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/207 "2010-06-16T11:56:47Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > What ever the truth is! This supreme being would make the truth known to all. I do not make claim to know the truth, I just have my beliefs about what it could be. That is what I strive for. Null answer, then. _Que Sera Sera_. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/208 "2010-06-16T12:05:17Z")
> [@InterestedObserver](#): > > I also wanted to add but missed the edit window: I was raised as a Christian, and the Bible states very clearly that false prophets/Christs will appear; people will say, “Look, He is there, out in the desert! Go see!” But that we are not to listen to them or believe any such tales, even if we witness something which appears miraculous or proof. > > The Bible says that when Jesus returns, it will be “in the clouds” and “in the twinkling of an eye” and “every eye shall see Him”. There will be no doubt whatsoever. > > This doesn’t mesh with this scenario…one could argue that a worldwide telecast accounts for how “every eye” on a round planet could simultaneously witness such a celestial event, but that’s still bullshit, imo…a great many people lack access to (or interest IN) such technologies. > > And as this thread demonstrates, a great many would refuse to accept the reality of the situation regardless. > > IMO, these Biblical passages, IF they have any truth to them at all (which of course, is debatable) speak of some mental/spiritual “second coming” which functions on an internal level…a sort of global, species-wide epiphany in which every single human being crosses a threshhold of awareness and KNOWS. Some have interpreted it as the Christ/Light Spirit entering into humanity and incarnating physically into billions of bodies at once (as it is said to have done to Jesus upon his Baptism…he was not born “Christ”.) > > At any rate, I am not a believer in a literal Bible or Christianity, but I would tend to take the advice given and not accept ANY such apparent “miracle” or interpretation of it. The NT Matthew chapter 16 also quotes Jesus as saying, He would Come in His father’s glory while some of the people standing there were still alive. It didn’t happen. He was also quoted as saying the stars would fall , the moon would turn to blood, the sun would not give it’s light, If this happened there would be no earth or people being sucked up in the air. The Book of Revalations is contridictory to what jesus was quoted as saying! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/209 "2010-06-17T06:11:25Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > no > > have many people? Mormons outnumber Muslims by more than 2-to-1 in the United States. It might seem like a minor marginal sect to you, but around here it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/210 "2010-06-17T12:16:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Null answer, then. _Que Sera Sera_. If the truth was known (of God) by all people and understood it. that would be a miracle. There is no human that can say (in truth ) they know what God is , said or did. It is belief in the words or thoughts of humans. Hence, many beliefs and religions, or none. If all were of one mind because of some miracle they then knew the truth, to me that would be a true miracle and then there would be knowledge or proof of what is true, and end all arguments! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/211 "2010-06-18T00:43:46Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > If all were of one mind because of some miracle they then knew the truth, to me that would be a true miracle and then there would be knowledge or proof of what is true, and end all arguments! Nope. Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy. Hive mind does not dictate truth. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/212 "2010-06-18T00:49:48Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > I just cannot get my head around anyone who doesn’t believe in God and am wondering if they actually ever think this might happen and what they would do if it did. Sure you can imagine it. Same setting, but instead of Jesus, it’s the Lord High Ganesha most beneficent, who performs a variety of miracles, and says that the believers will be rewarded with paradise, but the unbelievers will die unreincarnated as he fills the stadium with elephant dung. Wouldn’t you be crazy not to fall on your knees and worship Ganesha? No? Then you just wrapped your head around not believing in God. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/213 "2010-06-19T10:24:29Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Nope. Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy. Hive mind does not dictate truth. Is it being a fallacy if all people can see the same sun and recognize it as the sun? Is that Hive mind? Because all people can recognize night from day, is that Argumentum ad populum? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/214 "2010-06-19T11:07:40Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Is it being a fallacy if all people can see the same sun and recognize it as the sun? Is that Hive mind? Because all people can recognize night from day, is that Argumentum ad populum? No, it’s not; rather the opposite. It’s not argumentum ad populum unless the popular belief is unsupported by the evidence; argumentum ad populum is when popularity is being claimed as evidence, not when a belief is popular because it it has evidence. Just as a claim of authority isn’t the “argument from authority fallacy” when the authority in question really is an authority of the subject. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/215 "2010-06-19T11:26:40Z")
My first thought would be that I’m hallucinating. Assuming there would be enough evidence to convince me without reasonable doubt, I’d become very sad and depressed, then very angry. I could never truly worship such a cruel monster, and I’m assuming lip service wouldn’t be enough to save me from damnation. I’d start looking into ways of opposing god. If one god exists, then maybe some other gods or powers exist too. One of them might be capable of defeating the god that’s appeared on Earth. We only have his word of his omnipotence after all, and he’s known for dishonesty. I’d look into joining an anti-god organization, or start one myself if an appropriate one doesn’t exist yet. HAG for “Heathens against God” sounds like a good name. The odds would’t be in our favor, but I’d rather die fighting than give up. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/216 "2010-06-19T12:08:44Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > I’d look into joining an anti-god organization, or start one myself if an appropriate one doesn’t exist yet. HAG for “Heathens against God” sounds like a good name. The odds would’t be in our favor, but I’d rather die fighting than give up. You wouldn’t just go with _The Resistance_? I figure us Buddhists will be the first to react, and will form the core of the resistance. 1. We accept the possible existence of gods, so we’re acclimated, and won’t go into an existential / experimentalist / is-this-a-hallucination crisis like the Atheists. 2. We don’t think gods are very important to our philosophy, so we won’t get all worship-y like the Christians. 3. Won’t roll over like the other deistic religions might. 4. Only drawback is the non-violence thing, but I’m judging by the bloody buddhist history outlined in a recent thread, I think we can get past that. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/217 "2010-06-19T20:10:51Z")
Myself, I wonder what would happen if the OP’s situation came true, but instead of the stuff lined out there, he said “OK, folks, Dad knows the Bible doesn’t make sense. It’s mankind’s fault; they twisted a bunch of stuff around. Here’s what God REALLY wants you to do…” Would the atheists be more or less likely to believe based **solely** on what follows? ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/218 "2010-06-20T12:56:01Z")
I see miracles every day. I don’t see what the problem is? Why does every question have to end in a religious debate? People either believe or they don’t. Respect peoples freedom to believe or not to believe and move on. No one is ever going to change my thinking by putting me down. I find it selfish of people to argue over this. Live and Let Live. If people are so worried about God taking over then look into Sharia Law. It is trying to infiltrate our country and that religion will force everyone to believe in it. If you don’t they kill you. We have it pretty good right now, we can choose. With Sharia there is no choice. Get mad about things that are really harmful. If you like being a theist then you are as much as risk as a Christian for being persecuted. Anyone that is non Muslim is at risk of being killed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/219 "2010-06-20T13:28:58Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I see miracles every day. No, you don’t. there’s no such thing as a miracle. > [@Perciful](#): > > If people are so worried about God taking over then look into Sharia Law. It is trying to infiltrate our country and that religion will force everyone to believe in it. If you don’t they kill you. We have it pretty good right now, we can choose. With Sharia there is no choice. Get mad about things that are really harmful. > > If you like being a theist then you are as much as risk as a Christian for being persecuted. Anyone that is non Muslim is at risk of being killed. All religion is bad, including your precious Christianity. Given the chance, Christianity is at least as tyrannical as that Sharia law you are so worried about. And given the numbers, I am in far, far more danger of being oppressed, persecuted or killed by fanatic Christians than by fanatic Muslims in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792/220 "2010-06-20T13:33:33Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I see miracles every day. I don’t see what the problem is? Why does every question have to end in a religious debate? > > People either believe or they don’t. Respect peoples freedom to believe or not to believe and move on. No one is ever going to change my thinking by putting me down. I find it selfish of people to argue over this. > > Live and Let Live. > > If people are so worried about God taking over then look into Sharia Law. It is trying to infiltrate our country and that religion will force everyone to believe in it. If you don’t they kill you. We have it pretty good right now, we can choose. With Sharia there is no choice. Get mad about things that are really harmful. > > If you like being a theist then you are as much as risk as a Christian for being persecuted. Anyone that is non Muslim is at risk of being killed. It’s like you accidentally merged responses to two different threads, because what you posted after “Live and let live” is almost the opposite of what you posted _before_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-saw-a-miracle-tomorrow/542792.md?page=12)