If you saw a miracle tomorrow

Do you spend time wondering what you would do if you suddenly woke up in the “real world” and your whole life was just a dream? Do you spend time wondering what you would do if you saw convincing evidence that reality doesn’t exist and we’re all just a computer simulation? Do you spend time wondering whether everyone else in the world is being remote-controlled by aliens while they record your reactions for their entertainment?

We don’t spend time wondering whether Jesus and/or Muhammed were right about an all-powerful entity who will send us to hell if we don’t believe them. You could just as easily turn the question around, and ask yourself what you would do if this irrational god created a miracle informing everyone they were going to hell unless they had lived their lives as atheists and ignored the Christian and Muslim messages. What would you do, if YOU suddenly realized you were going to hell because your religious beliefs are wrong? Whatever you would do in that situation is probably what the rest of us atheists would do; either convince ourselves that the miracle-message is not true, or try to kiss ass and beg for forgiveness.

Yes, if I was there, I’d probably have a few choice words for Him.

Yes, exactly. What if a deity floated down on a soccer field in the form of a woman with a lion’s head? Sekhmet notices you’ve been ignoring her prophets, her books, her divine messages for 5000 years. She’s going to rip out your throat and drink your blood before you die…except that since your family hasn’t arranged your funeral rites, you don’t get an afterlife worth experiencing, you just wander lost for all eternity.

How would you feel? What would you do?

I wouldn’t. I’d say “Ooh. Bugger. Guess I was wrong,” and accept that I had my chance and I muffed it. Though with the self satisfaction that, apparently according to the scenario in the OP, nobody got it right and everybody is getting the same punishment alongside me.

If we assume that God is sufficiently omnipotent to avoid logical paradoxes, then let’s look at His record of miracles (not a comprehensive list, please amend if you must):

[ul]
[li] Create the universe - I am sincerely impressed[/li][li] Instantaneously scramble the single language the world’s population spoke, thus creating the myriad of human languages - I am truly in awe.[/li][li] Halting the rotatation of the earth for a day to give Joshua more daylight fighting time - in comparison to the first two a bit weak, but nonetheless very impressive.[/li][li] Keeping Jonah alive in the belly of a fish - beyond medical/biological explanation but points off for style[/li][li] Water to wine - meh[/li][li] Walking on water - If Barry and Stuart can do it, I’m entertained but not impressed (again, review the first few points here)[/li][li] Raising the dead, coming back from the dead - Cool if true, but open to other interpretations (there’s a reason they used to put bells with strings in coffins)[/li][/ul]

My point: If the best God can do is descend from the heavens without apparent strings attached - wow, Copperfield can do THAT. Where’s God’s imagination?
Imagine I was hired by God, Inc. as part of His marketing team. My job is to come up with ways to increase the number of “believers” - i.e. what stunts could He pull to open the eyes of the atheists.

Off the top of my head:
If we assume the world population is 6.8 billion and 73% of the population is 15 or older, that’s almost 5 billion people. Let’s invite them to all to a meeting. Let’s give each individual in this crowd a comfortable personal space of 4 sq. ft, that’s 20 billion square feet. The circular amphitheatre would have to be 30 miles across (I’ve modelled my amphitheatre as a flat circle - too lazy to calculate the surface area required of parabola so everyone can see the stage at the centre). Every ten years, I would advise God transport everyone over the age of 15 to this amphitheatre for a regular update of His will and how we as a people are tracking to His plan. On schedule, every ten years, all of these people disappear from where they are and reappear in their assigned seat - wearing no clothes (because He can do that). God makes gives an impressive powerpoint presentation outlining what we’re getting right and what we’re doing wrong with suggestions for improvements. Then, after a brief Q&A he transports everyone back to the place and time whence they came.

Freewill is not violated by this: God merely makes it clear what He wants, we can choose to obey or reject His will. No one can claim this was a hallucination because when we all compare notes they match up. We will know something non-terrestrial occurred because no structure of that magnitude exists on Earth (believe me, we’d know). This would truly be miraculous, and certainly far less effort than, oh, creating the universe!

Here’s a more effective though less dramatic solution: Have God personally appear to each individual in a form they find culturally comforting, say on everyone’s birthday. Let’s timebox the meeting to say 1 hour, the first 45 minutes is God providing vital guidance, correction, and 15 minutes for questions and answers. Knowing this will happen every year, I have a whole year to think of the best use of that 15 minutes. There will be no question that God exists - there he is. His claims as to who his is will be bolstered by His demonstration of wisdom that, when I follow, pans out for the best.

If cost is an option, at the very least He should publish periodic updates to the Bible, with frequent rewrites of parables and metaphors to speak in a more accurate cultural context to the current audience. And, hey let’s splurge, directly publish the Bible in multiple languages Himself and not leave translation to us.

This is easy! Why is it so hard for God?

My reaction(if this stunt somehow convinced me)?
“You sure muffed up that message, J-Boy! Next time, invest a little more time and money, hire a decent PR firm, and you won’t have this problem.”

This. What other response could you be looking for? If Godzilla shows up and stomps on my house I’ll believe he exists and I’ll scream and run just like everybody else. Do you want us to start screaming and running now?

Should your scenario happen, will Jesus explain why he waited until AFTER the deadline to make himself clear? Will he seriously expect me to start worshiping him AFTER he has condemned me to eternal hell with no recourse? That would be a seriously stupid and dickish move on his part. At least the believers could say “I told you so” though, so good for you guys.

Compared to the average opening/closing ceremony of any international event - if I was in the stands and all I saw was a single wingnut ‘floating’ down from the sky and then cuts to some video clips from ‘Hellboy’ on the jumbotron - I’d be seriously dissapointed in South Africa’s ability to put on a proper show.

I’d maybe try to start a wave or something just so I didn’t get bored.

Me? I don’t watch TV, so I would miss it. I would most likely catch the thread here though.

What is the point of this? It’s like asking what would you do if Gandalf or Superman or vampires were real, it doesn’t matter one bit what we answer because none of that is going to happen ever. To answer you though i would fight that evil and repugnant so called god the same way i would fight Sauron if middle earth was real. I wouldn’t mess with Superman though.

What if, just what if, hypothetically now, a person who believed in God took some biology classes.

And suppose in those biology classes they learned about fossils and evolution. And what if they discovered that humans evolved from other species? And that all life on earth evolved from earlier life?

And there was no trickery, if that person could walk up and touch the fossils, and volunteer on paleontological digs and actually see the fossils being dug up out of the earth?

And what if that person also took some history classes, and learned that the Bible was written over hundreds of years by lots of different people for lots of different reasons?

And what if that person also took some astronomy classes and learned that the universe contains thousands of galaxies, and each galaxy contains millions of stars, and that the universe stretches for billions of light-years in every direction? No trickery, they could look through telescopes, and learn how astronmers discovered that the universe is so incomprehensively vast compared to the tiny speck of the Earth, and the humans crawling on the outer crust of that speck.

Wouldn’t that person have to stop believing in God? Or at least, the sort of God who descends from the Heavens and declares they’re going to torture unbelievers in a fiery pit for all eternity? Wouldn’t that person at least decide that if there is a God, that God is something far beyond humanity and so much vaster than anything ever dreamed by a bunch of ancient goat-herds? That the sum total of physical laws of the universe might metaphorically be termed “God”, but that this “God” has no personality, no awareness, no consciousness, and no awareness of human beings, let alone interest in them, let alone interest in their sex lives.

Of course, this is just imaginary, and could never happen.

If we cannot know that this hypothetical is impossible, how can we then be certain that it is not faked when it does occur? Surely the same reasoning can lead you to state that “you don’t know for sure” that it is real when it occurs?

But what if God planted all the evidence just to test our blind faith? What if he gave us a mind capable of examining and evaluating all this fake “evidence” he planted, and the natural curiosity to do so, but sent vague messages through 2nd and 3rd parties that we should ignore all the evidence he planted.
You’d want to love and follow such a deceptive and devious god, right?

Nice touch. The Jews didn’t kill Jesus, the Romans killed Jesus. Historical fact. You could look it up.

Well, I’m still stinging over believing that guy who made the Statue o’ Liberty disappear.

Well, I don’t know about it being exactly “historical fact”… :stuck_out_tongue:

Playing along: convinced it was not a hallucination, I would think “wow, God really is the sick, malevolent, sadistic, torturing bastard the Bible made Him out to be,” and would then attempt a crouching position so as better to kiss my own ass goodbye.

It would depend on the leading of the Holy Spirit who is God living in me. Scripture speaks of such deception at the end times. He is a impostor by definition (though the miracles are visible), no one but God is able to judge the human heart. Let this man be judged by God as he judges.

Oh, and “well, at least that finally settles the omnibenevolence question…”

You can easily imagine exactly what this would be like. Just picture a god YOU don’t believe in showing up and doing exactly the same thing.

You’re watching a soccer game on TV and suddenly the winged serpent Quetzalcoatl flies down out of the sky and lands on the pitch. He announces to everyone that the only true gods are the gods of the ancient Aztecs. Judaism, Christianity, Islam … all the other religions are meaningless bunk.

They’ve been biding their time for the last 500 years deciding how to punish humanity for rejecting them, but now they’re back and they’re pissed. Anyone who doesn’t immediately worship them will be ritually killed.

What do you do, Marmite Lover? Do you abandon your current beliefs and bow down to your true gods?